O/T BURKA

[shrimpnsave]

Mixed opinion here but i tend to agree with dawzi.........

The burka is a repressive and backward relic which should be banned from the UK too.

All the excuses of cultural diversity won't wash. (And BTW, should we accept "cultural diversity" as an excuse for female genital mutilation, 'honour killings' or any other 'quaint traditional customs' from mediaeval times?).

[Plain Peter]

Mixed opinion here but i tend to agree with dawzi.........

The burka is a repressive and backward relic which should be banned from the UK too.

By simply banning the burqa/niqab, you will be imprisoning the poor women who wear the damn thing to a life behind closed-doors, FOREVER.
The women, like it or lump it, will have no say in the matter.
Is that what you want?

[bigreddog]

Mixed opinion here but i tend to agree with dawzi.........

The burka is a repressive and backward relic which should be banned from the UK too.

All the excuses of cultural diversity won't wash. (And BTW, should we accept "cultural diversity" as an excuse for female genital mutilation, 'honour killings' or any other 'quaint traditional customs' from mediaeval times?).

Absolutely agree, lets get rid of the royal family, the guards divisions of the british army and I think uniform at eton should be binned too while we're at it.

I know my posts on this subject have been sarcastic, but that's the point. the moment you start banning things because you don't like them, then all bets are off. just hope something you like to do or wear isn't next on the list. I'm trying to avoid falling into to the Godwin's Law trap, but you can see where we're going.

[EDD]

just on that note alone them do-gooders who stick up for them trying to be self-righteous they can always go and live in a Muslim country if they think our women are slags and go back to the stone age.

The above statement could be right out of the handbook for your average Taliban member. It shows no understanding of their religion, beliefs or ways.

We live in a tollerent moderate country and I'd like to think we've evolved to be understanding and welcoming to all, after all it was us years ago who went around the globe impressing our ways on them and thus the Empire was born.

It should be up to an individual as to how they dress, it's not a religious requirement and as such just like Motorcycle helmets, in certain areas for identification they should be removed. Other than that, if they want to look like a walking black letter box, let them!

Andf i'm no dogooder by a long stretch of the imagination

Live in Bradford as I do, and I can guarantee your opinon will change within a week...

[mrpotatohead]

why

[EDD]

you may not be so liberal minded....

[durianmuncher]

Have to agree with banning of the Burka. It is a symbol of repression and harmful to a healthy society. I am sure that many women are forced to wear this clobber against their will.

However there should also be stringent rules on husbands not letting their wives out of the house etc and jail for causing oppression and lack of equality to wives.

[Mark S]

I would like to ban tattoos. They are a symbol of ultimate daftness.

No such thing as a classy or tasteful tattoo IMO.

While we are at it, there should be fines for swearing in public. In your own home is fine but please dont pollute my ear space.

[durianmuncher]

I would like to ban tattoos. They are a symbol of ultimate daftness.

No such thing as a classy or tasteful tattoo IMO.

While we are at it, there should be fines for swearing in public. In your own home is fine but please dont pollute my ear space.

Difference is, tattoos and swearing are personal choice, the burka, in many cases. most definitely is not.

[USA Shrimp]

I have quite a few muslim students in the school where I teach and they have a variety of dress styles - from full burqa to just plain old regular clothes. There seems to be a lot of folk on this board commenting on muslim culture without really having any experience of it. How many people who have expressed a strong opinion on this issue have actually spoken to a muslim about this?

Maybe Peter? Maybe?

[Curly]

I would like to ban tattoos. They are a symbol of ultimate daftness.

No such thing as a classy or tasteful tattoo IMO.

While we are at it, there should be fines for swearing in public. In your own home is fine but please dont pollute my ear space.

Would I still be allowed to leave the house if I wear my Burqa?

[Mark S]

I would like to ban tattoos. They are a symbol of ultimate daftness.

No such thing as a classy or tasteful tattoo IMO.

While we are at it, there should be fines for swearing in public. In your own home is fine but please dont pollute my ear space.

Would I still be allowed to leave the house if I wear my Burqa?

Nope.

I also used to support a ban on bald heads but lately I have changed my mind.

[scar]

I would like to ban tattoos. They are a symbol of ultimate daftness.

No such thing as a classy or tasteful tattoo IMO.

While we are at it, there should be fines for swearing in public. In your own home is fine but please dont pollute my ear space.

Would I still be allowed to leave the house if I wear my Burqa?

Nope.

I also used to support a ban on bald heads but lately I have changed my mind.

I think a bad on bald heads is going a bit far... however I would support a ban on toupee's!

[Mark S]

Now you are talking!

Ban the Toupe!

[Plain Peter]

Now you are talking!

Ban the Toupe!

darrenlock wears a toupe

[Keith]

Now you are talking!

Ban the Toupe!

darrenlock wears a toupe

yes but he was talking about his "two piece running kit".

Ban the toupe and ban Curly from going out of his house unless wearing a burqa? We could be on to something here! First part of the manifesto comes together for the Baz's Numpty Party at the next election!

[durianmuncher]

I have quite a few muslim students in the school where I teach and they have a variety of dress styles - from full burqa to just plain old regular clothes. There seems to be a lot of folk on this board commenting on muslim culture without really having any experience of it. How many people who have expressed a strong opinion on this issue have actually spoken to a muslim about this?

Maybe Peter? Maybe?

I have had lots of conversations with Muslims about it and have heard viewpoints across the spectrum, not least my wife (who abhors them).

On the one hand some women have stated that they find the burqa liberating, spiritual, an item of clothing which brings them closer to God and their families (submission). One stated that she wore it because she was appalled at the liberalism across the world and in particular the garbage that she believed is produced in Bollywood and Collywood.

On the other hand, I had a late teen come into the room in tears because she was seen in the shopping mall without a scarf and was severely berated. This was in her own free time.

Other people have stated how they hate wearing them in terribly hot weather, but that they have no choice of their own if they are to remain a part of their family.

I have spoken to many Iranians who, while not in burqas but just headscarves, are furious and disgusted by President Ahmadinejad''s government making all Iranian women wear them in the street.

On two separate occasions, females have come into their class in a burqa, and seeing that there were no other male Arabs, have taken the head part off and been delighted they could do so safely in public, stating their absolute hate for them, and talking about the pressure they are under to submit to the burqa. 10 minutes before the end they would cover up again, much to everyone's amusement and amazement.

Thus, if it were truly an individual choice, I would have no hesitation to denounce those calling for it to be banned. However, I have seen and heard many that hate them but are forced to wear them, so I veer towards banning them because anything in between would be rather complex to successfully police.

[Plain Peter]

Some excellent reading here:

http://www.jeansasson.com/books/princess-trilogy.html

Not surprising, the books are banned in certain countries.

[Keith]

On two separate occasions, females have come into their class in a burqa, and seeing that there were no other male Arabs, have taken the head part off and been delighted they could do so safely in public, stating their absolute hate for them, and talking about the pressure they are under to submit to the burqa. 10 minutes before the end they would cover up again, much to everyone's amusement and amazement.

Thus, if it were truly an individual choice, I would have no hesitation to denounce those calling for it to be banned. However, I have seen and heard many that hate them but are forced to wear them, so I veer towards banning them because anything in between would be rather complex to successfully police.

But if banned, would those females have simply been stopped by their families from attending your classes altogether?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like them and I am totally against the subjugation of women but I believe that for many women the banning of the burqa would simply imprison them further whilst removing the freedom of choice from those who want to wear the outfit.

[durianmuncher]

[/quote]

But if banned, would those females have simply been stopped by their families from attending your classes altogether?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like them and I am totally against the subjugation of women but I believe that for many women the banning of the burqa would simply imprison them further whilst removing the freedom of choice from those who want to wear the outfit.[b][/b][/quote]


Unfortunately, I am sure you are right. Many females would be kept indoors and their lives would be even more isolated. Basically, the situation is between the proverbial rock and a hard place as while what you state is undeniably true, the fact remains that there are many women who would love to dress like everyone else and their basic right to do this is being infringed.

The difficult question remains. How can such an impasse be resolved? Certainly not for a significant time period and a continued degree of suffering on one side or the other, whichever route our illustrious leaders deign to travel.

[durianmuncher]

Apologies for the double post, but to highlight Keith's valid point:

http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/may/05 ... t-laws.htm

[Stanley Bowles]

Ban it ,as a ex service man who served in the Gulf, we respected their laws in their country covering our arms flesh up in ramadam. We are not aloud to wear and show a cross round our kneck in irab countries and to me the wearing of a cross is not a security threat walking into a shopping centre.They spit at our feet if we do not agree to our ways which we do adear to when we are over there. If we where to walk down Dahran high street wearing our traditional dress the speedo trunks im sure we would be delt with in the form of 100 lashes,whos still living in the 3rd world now and there trying to convert us back to the dark ages p.s The Burka isnt about relgion ,its to worn in sandstorms and there isnt many of them here in our green and pleasant land .Plesae respect our country before its to late

[Plain Peter]

Apologies for the double post, but to highlight Keith's valid point:

http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/may/05 ... t-laws.htm

But there is a 'health warning' at the bottom of that article.
I wouldn't surprise me if the husband was told to 'wind his neck in' by the Muslim Council.

[Keith]

If we where to walk down Dahran high street wearing our traditional dress the speedo trunks im sure we would be delt with in the form of 100 lashes,

If you waked down Lancaster Road wearing a pair of speedos, you'd deserve 100 lashes! After the mental image of Aspers in a bikini, I really will need therapy to get me through today!

So to sum your argument up, the middle east has some oppressive, backward regimes that forces people dress in a certain way and the best way for our enlightened, forward looking regime to counter that is by forcing people to dress in a certain way?

The burqa isn't about religion. It is mainly about male oppression of women and sometimes about women's choice to dress in an ultra-conservative manner. Those women who choose to wear it should be allowed to continue, with certain restrictions where clear identification is required. But those women who are oppressed would become more so by changing the law in this manner. Changing the law so that oppressing wives & sisters in the first place would be a better start... but then, it's only recently that 'wife beating' started to be taken seriously so we've yet to get our own house in order in that respect.

[marky No.1]

'wife beating' started to be taken seriously

It's not just wives tho is it? Spare a thought for battered husbands as well

figures show 2,336 women faced court on charges of domestic violence in 2007, mainly for bashing their husbands, compared with just 818 in 1999.

News Ltd says men's groups say they're happy that police are finally taking men seriously, but it's still hard for husbands to admit they've been attacked by their wives.

Research shows women tend to use guns, knives, boiling liquids and irons to attack their partners.

The increase in violence, which is often fuelled by alcohol, has sparked calls for refuges for men.

Assistant Commissioner Mark Murdoch says there's no definitive explanation for the increasing number of women being prosecuted for domestic violence offences.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/828 ... n-the-rise

Imagine having to face this after a hard day at the office

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