Released List

[George Dawes]

i think this my first comment about our youth policy or any youth policy but here goes




now in a nutshell if there good enough and the saying goes "the cream always rises to the top "

[Morecambe Player]

Name me one ex youth team player who has been released under Sammy's regime that has signed for another League Two team?

Can't think of any? Ok, how about naming me one of them that has gone on to sign for a Conference team? Strill struggling?

The answer is none, not only are these youngsters not good enough for our level they aren't even good enough for the level below! If they were you would have thought that someone would have signed them up but no one ever does.

I'm also not buying the argument that if they were given time in the first team they would end up being the required standard for League Two football. If this was the case then some of the other players would have improved their game after signing for their Conference North / Unibond clubs and made their way back up the pyramid with other clubs but they haven't.

Until I see evidence of us releasing players that go onto prove themselves at other League Two clubs then I think I'll keep faith with Sammy's judgement rather than bleating about not giving a load of sub standard players games in the first team at the expense of better ones.

For me that's a fair point, but I think there's two issues here:

1. Does Sammy believe in young players?
2. Do we have the infrastructure to develop young players to be good enough for the first team?

I think the answer to 1. is yes. Andy Parrish was picked up from Bury at just 20. He's also brought in loan players such as Ryan McGivern and has tried to get others but for whatever reason, the clubs have refused to release them. Our geography and wage structure might prevent us from signing more of the likes of Parrish. And don't forget that Sammy was after Connerton but was knocked back.

As for 2. Well I don't know the answer to that. What I do know is that, as I mentioned earlier, the Premier League clubs cherry pick the very best, but they also release a lot too, and, in a similar vein to RK's post, a lot of those don't make it in any grade of football, so the problem isn't just Morecambe's. It's the same at the bigger clubs but in a bigger scale. If you were to buy 1000 lottery scratchcards, there's a fair chance you'll win a bit of money, but if you only buy 10, there's less chance.

[Christies Child]

It will be interesting to see who Sammy brings in this close season both in terms of age, pedigree, expertise and potential.

I still believe that the future of any club is in a Youth Development programme. Didn't Hereford adopt such a policy that saw them promoted to League 1....

[mrpotatohead]

my point was not a dig at sammy as an individual, i was highlighting the fact that the four players being released is a clear indication that we do not have a grass roots to club youth system working at mfc, i personally watched matty poole playing for the reserves, thought he looked excellent, we will not attract younger players from elsewhere as things stand now, JH seemed to have a good youth policy going on, but if league 2 footy is all about results using older journeymen so be it, it does not have to be the first team managers job to develop the younger players, but it has to be some ones

[The Red Knight]

I still believe that the future of any club is in a Youth Development programme. Didn't Hereford adopt such a policy that saw them promoted to League 1....

No. Hereford loaned a lot of young players from Premier League / Championship clubs which got them promoted. The problem with that though is as soon as they got promoted those players loan deals expired and they went back to their parent clubs, instantly breaking up half of the team that got them promoted. They went straight back down again.

What I do know is that, as I mentioned earlier, the Premier League clubs cherry pick the very best, but they also release a lot too, and, in a similar vein to RK's post, a lot of those don't make it in any grade of football, so the problem isn't just Morecambe's. It's the same at the bigger clubs but in a bigger scale. If you were to buy 1000 lottery scratchcards, there's a fair chance you'll win a bit of money, but if you only buy 10, there's less chance.

Correct, which is why a sensible approach for clubs at our level is to wait for these players to get released at 17, 18, 19 and sign them up to contracts rather than trying to bring through our own players as the chances are that those released by bigger clubs, having had years of training and coaching by Premier League / Championship clubs will be a hell of a lot better than anyone who the bigger clubs overlooked and hence end up in our youth system. Essentially we will be giving Sammy better youngsters to work with and a better chance of them becoming first team regulars.

[The Red Knight]

JH seemed to have a good youth policy going on, but if league 2 footy is all about results using older journeymen so be it, it does not have to be the first team managers job to develop the younger players, but it has to be some ones

I would disagree to an extent.

Jim Harvey had a good youth system going on before the introduction of the playoffs. With the prospect of only one team going up each season and the highly likely scenario of that not being Morecambe this allowed Jim to blood youngsters to sell onto bigger clubs as this was realistically the height of what a club of Morecambe's size in that league could achieve.

When the playoffs were introduced and the club went full time this upped the stakes a bit for clubs like ourselves and the days of having our league season essentially over by January allowing us to give youngsters time to come through were over.

From the first season of the Conference playoffs how many youngsters broke into the team under Jim Harvey? Walmsley, Osborne, Dodgson, Carlton, Uberschar, Lloyd and Hunter? Of them only Hunter and Carlton could be considered successes and they broke through way back in 2002/2003, Carlton may even have been earlier.

So yes, whilst Harvey did have a good youth system I think it's only fair that you say it was through necessity rather than need as he soon abandoned it himself when the lure of the playoffs were introduced.

[Posh]

I think the crux of the issue is that young players have to start their careers somewhere. I'd prefer it if we had more players from the local area like Thommo, Perks, Drummy, Garry Hunter, Wayne or Danny Carlton because they engender more pride being local lads and they are more loyal - each of them were at the club over six years each. In a bad market home developed players cost less and in a good market you can get £150K for a player like John Hardiker. Also the League are encouraging more home grown talent and youth systems.

Having said all that it takes a lot of commitment to set it up and run, and you aren't guaranteed a result at the end. So I can understand the reluctance of Sammy and the club to pursue a vigorous youth policy.

But if you're not going to go down the youth route then you do need to invest in young players others have developed at whatever level. In a league system where money counts it's the shrewd manager who bucks the trend. Ian Holloway spent comparatively little to bring in some players who blossomed; John Still at Daggers raids non-league clubs at all levels for gems; and Liam Watson at Southport has a record of finding talent and selling on or helping them get promoted. My concern is that we don't with the one exception being Mark Duffy who was targeted by the manager.

Of course if we pay big and get established players who deliver then none of us will complain it's just good to see a manager and scouting team who can deliver quick, keen and hungry players willing to prove themselves at a higher level or on a pro contract.

[footballfan]

I agree Posh, but by now all the hard work would of been done and local lads might think twice about going out of the area. I know financially it is a drain, but Gardi must have been in the same boat and it wasn`t too long ago that he had made more money in sell on`s than any other club outside the prem. He believes in a strong youth system and the benefits it brings, you only have to see their training facilities to see where some of the money goes and they have never risen further than championship. I have always said I would love to be a mirror image of Crewe, up for a couple of seasons, sell on a couple of diamonds, relegation, sell on your next superstar, reap the sell ons and gain promotion once more. We need young blood at the club, lots go on about getting the fans in at a young age, lets get the players in yong and mould them, if we are to move forward before we become an Elephants graveyard of players in their swansong years coming because of past glories that the manager remembers and an easy pay packet for them.

[morecambe mick]

That said, one of the problems Morecambe have is competition. The very best young players in this district will be picked up by Premier League clubs at the ages of 8 or 9, and they are then developed at that club.

How many are picked up by Morecambe?

None is the answer.

Morecambe's "youth" system starts at 16.

I for one would be surprised if this didn't change.
The club told "Morecambe Youth Football Club" to change their name, they are the youth teams anyone knowing local youth football are familiar with - and nothing to do with PMG's club. This suggests to me that they (MFC) are intending starting their own youth teams.

In my opinion a well run youth set up is essential.

Didn't Jim Harvey help Dario with his youth set up?
It wouldn't happen but...........