Frightening! Mcilroy can't understand it!

[HALMA 1983]

but alternatively we will not accept a season of struggle at the bottom

I thought most of us would accept a season of struggle as long as we dont go down. We were spoilt last season but even if the worst happened and we were relegated, Sammys job should never be in question

I'd accept a season of struggle, no problems with that and Sammy along with his sidekick Lills...........superb! but all this negativity on the board has stemmed from a simple error of judgement...................none use of subs when you have just scored a goal and have a chance to salvage a point, instead we lose and the same will happen again if we go behind and stick instead of twisting when it's crying out for change.
That's the end of it now as far as i'm concerned because surely the penny must have dropped and there can't be a repeat of that in the near future.

[shrimper]

'This' manager is the same one who got us promoted and to a very respectable position in our first League season, as well as masterminding Carling Cup wins away against teams two divisions above us and a place in the JPT 'semi-final'.

And your point is?

The manager knows only too well from his own experiences at previous clubs of quickly turning from hero to zero before departing. Most MFC fans are realistic in that they dont expect us to challenge for the top positions on a regular basis but alternatively we will not accept a season of struggle at the bottom which looks likely on the evidence of the product. It was the manager who stated his intentions to strengthen the team but looking at the new faces along with the limitations of some of those retained I am sorry but you have to question his judgement. In addition to the managers ridiculous excuses the worry is that there is not much he can do about it except hope that there are at least 2 other teams worse than us. Little wonder the natives are restless.

My point is - precisely and only - that 'this' manager can not be accused of 'messing up' in his time with Morecambe as your phrase 'this manager has messed up big time' would imply.

If you prefer to judge the whole of a manager's tenure and, indeed, his probable future emplyoment, on the basis of such very brief evidence; as opposed to his history in management and, more specifically, with this club, then that's up to you.

I'd suggest others, including me, would choose to give him the courtesy of much, much longer before hinting, what?, that we should sack him before things get worse? (As your frankly outrageous comment in your original post also clearly implies).

[Voice at the back]

Wow

I was upset last Sat and even posted to say so but calm down there's another 40 weeks to go.

The "New Team" will take time to settle. It won't happen over night and may not happen to our expectations this Sat. Patience is a vutue.

Ask yourself this "Has Sammy ever actually let us down"

I would expect the majority vote is NO.

Get behind the team, Manager, Club and SUPPORT them when they need it.

[Seasider9601]

Enough of this bloody bleating and negativity. For god's sake. We are in the Football League for crying out loud !! And only our second season of !!!!! It's only just 12 months over since we won promotion after 80 odd years of trying to do so !!! Why do we have the god given right to "beat teams like Rotherham" ??????? Rotherham are a good team with a good manager who learnt a lot from his time playing under the gum chewing Scottish one at O.T.

We don't have divine rights to brush everyone aside at all. Come on, 10 years in the Conference and umpteen years in the NPL. We're now where we have wanted to be for years. I know which i'd rather be watching, Rotherham at home or South Liverpool at home? Not a difficult choice is it?

This negativity and constant criticism is getting me down here. A bit of patience is all thats required. Sammy is the man. Recognise it, support it, or do us a favour Negative Ned and cough (for want of a better word)

[SkinnyShrimp]

I can't believe this thread!!
Yes I think everyone is disappointed with a 3-1 loss at home, particularly on the back of a 4-0 away but let’s get things in context here!
Most teams in this division had no idea what to expect from Morecambe last year and we surprised many with excellent results in the first two thirds of the season.
I for one was more worried about the season - the dreaded second seasonitis!

As has been said we have come a long way in these last two seasons but lets not get too big for our boots and let our expectations get out of control - yes of course we want to do well but this season won't be easy and surely we would all accept keeping our league status is the main priority - to repeat last season would be fantastic but we have no right to expect it!

Let’s give Sammy the chance he deserves - no has EARNED - at the very least the WHOLE of this season.

[marky]

Did anyone read the chairman's column in the programme? He made, for me, two very important points. Firstly, we have to keep moving forward. I don't know what other people's definitions of that are, but for me it means finishing at least a place higher (& therefore getting more prize money). Secondly, he said last season's average attendance has to be at the very least maintained. Now, Saturday was already 200 down on that (and that was first home game of the season). Given the abysmal performance, there may well be a few who won't return for a while. The only way to maintain a 2,800 average attendance is by performing well and winning the majority of home games. Now it is too early, but Saturday's performance was so pathetic that anymore like that and the club will be failing in its two stated aims.

[shrimper]

We all want to do better than last season but it's not straightforward.

'Moving forward' could be 'consolidating our League position in our second season'. We'd like to improve our league position but if we at least stay in the League then we'll have had twice as long at this level than we had at the end of last season, so you could call that progress.

It's only really when we get the regular income from the new stadium that we can start to seriously look at our wages and transfer fees to enable us to really start to think about making a bold move up the table. Otherwise we will be living beyond our means and no-one wants that.

Crowds are important but there are a couple of factors there. The novelty of playing League teams has worn off and, very importantly, I think the rise in fuel costs will make a lot of people think about their away travel this season and that (combined with the fact we will not be a 'new' ground for people to come to) may result in fewer visiting fans.

Just a general point on the original post: I really don't like the tone of 'McIlroy (not 'Sammy') can't understand it' and mentions of 'this manager', like he's some kind of arch enemy who we refer to by surname or job-title.

He's 'our' manager and, as has been said, in his time with us has 'earned' the right to expect better than this kind of discourteous tone.

Bit of respect required if people like Negative Ned (assuming he's not simply a 'laughing up the sleeve' wind-up merchant) are at all bothered about being taken seriously.

Crowds WILL probably fall if performances don't improve, that's football. But it's also true that true fans stick by the side when things aren't going so well - it's easy to support a team when they are winning every week.

We're all in this together.

[parkyboy]

Good post Shrimper , Sammy will get it right he is no fool at the job .He has agood managerial brain geared for success and already has irons in the fire to put it right, It takes time and doesnt happen overnight , ten games into the season is the time to get worried. We have been here before and will get out of it , lets really support the guy and HIS team and get off there backs , criticise by all means but stop slaughtering the man is my advice to everyone

[shrimper]

Sammy will get it right he is no fool at the job .

He may, he may not. I just think that he's surely earned enough trust from us to not be hinting at calling for his head after just a few games of a new season which everyone knew would be tough.
I sometimes think that people watch each game (or group of a few games) in complete isolation. When we win a few there's talk of the title, then when we go thorugh a bit of a sticky patch it's all disaster and everyone should be sacked and is 'clearly not good enough for this division'.

[HALMA 1983]

I agree with most of what you're saying Glen because you are a true 'leveller' (voice of the people) when it comes to balancing points of view on here and I think any talk of Sammy's head being called for is worse than Armageddon but he was bound to come in for some stick after Saturday just as Jim did when the same applied during his tenure.
As said I never expect miracles from the team or feel there's any divine right to beat another team but I do hate going home after the final whistle when we've lost in such a disery fashion, instead of feeling that I’ve seen us have a right good go at it and been entertained, I feel cheated and sick to the pit of my stomach

Thankfully it doesn't happen too often but when it does expect some fallout

[D-EZ]

Good post Shrimper , Sammy will get it right he is no fool at the job .He has agood managerial brain geared for success and already has irons in the fire to put it right, It takes time and doesnt happen overnight , ten games into the season is the time to get worried. We have been here before and will get out of it , lets really support the guy and HIS team and get off there backs , criticise by all means but stop slaughtering the man is my advice to everyone

Exactly, If we go down, i'm not too upset. I'm gutted yes but if it wasn't for Sammy we wouldn't be here and i'm enjoying the ride. Sammy will be a championship/premiership manager in a few years, with our without Morecambe. When we lose him is when we realise how much we miss him. Get off there cases and enjoy watching Morecambe football club wether we win or lose. Because we're a family club and we want to suceed but we've got to be positive to that. Enjoy the season.

[shrimper]

I agree with most of what you're saying Glen because you are a true 'leveller' (voice of the people) when it comes to balancing points of view on here

I'm not trying to stifle debate and I also don't think that when the team plays badly we should just keep quiet and all be happy clappy. We're passionate about our team and it matters when we lose. We want to know what went wrong, talk about it and play at being manager with our opinions about what should be done to put it right.

It just gets my goat a bit when a manager who has served us so well (as Jim did before Sammy) - and stuck with us when another club came in for him let's not forget - gets the kind of discourteous slagging we sometimes see. And all based on a very few bad games.

[Ned]

[color=#FF4080][quote="shrimper"]
It just gets my goat a bit when a manager who has served us so well (as Jim did before Sammy) - and stuck with us when another club came in for him let's not forget - gets the kind of discourteous slagging we sometimes see. And all based on a very few bad games.

First of all no-one is calling for Sammys (aka this manager's) head.
Secondly stop spinning! Sammy was not offered another job and the club in question stated he was one name amongst many. Sammy stuck with us first and foremost because it suited him (I have no problem with that). You may recall everyone used to worry when the Tranmere job became available that we would lose Jim and there was huge relief when he said his priorities were here .... in reality it was all over the Tranmere websites and chat lines that at no time was he a serious contender. Lots of managers play this card to consolidate or enhance their position.
The discourteous slagging although common place in professional clubs is hard to swallow at a small family club but the dilema is that we need their cash. The unenlightened may disagree and would settle for a small band of loyalists even if that meant playing non league. Ask the management of Chester and Accrington if they would accept over the top critical fans paying admission fees instead of empty spaces.
Last season I always found Sammy to be in tune with the supporters regarding selection i.e. he appeared to see what we saw and reacted accordingly. This season he appears to have shifted and seems to be falling in the trap of confusing effort with ability. Instead of creative performances we are now highlighting players who run their socks off and you wonder why supporters become angry.

[shrimper]

[color=#FF4080

First of all no-one is calling for Sammys (aka this manager's) head.

I must have misunderstood this comment then:

"This manager has messed up big time and it will be no consolation to anyone if he eventually pays the ultimate price as by that time it may have cost us."

I took it to mean that you thought he had messed up already and if we waited until he'd messed up even more then we may, by that time, be in a really serious situation. The alternative to waiting that time would, I presumed you meant, be to get rid of him now. I apologise, perhaps you'll explain what you really meant.

Secondly stop spinning! Sammy was not offered another job and the club in question stated he was one name amongst many.

I didn't say he was offered another job. I said another club came in for him. They did. Shrewsbury formally asked for permission to speak to Sammy about their vacant manager's job.

The discourteous slagging although common place in professional clubs is hard to swallow at a small family club but the dilema is that we need their cash. The unenlightened may disagree and would settle for a small band of loyalists even if that meant playing non league. Ask the management of Chester and Accrington if they would accept over the top critical fans paying admission fees instead of empty spaces.

I don't understand this point. If you're saying we'd rather have 3,000 moaners in the ground than 250 people who happily applauded a 6-0 defeat then that is agreed. I just don't know where that comes into the debate.

Last season I always found Sammy to be in tune with the supporters regarding selection i.e. he appeared to see what we saw and reacted accordingly.

I'm not bothered whether the manager is in tune with supporters as long as he moves us in the right direction and I would really worry about a manager who took notice of fans on boards like this when making team selections.

This season he appears to have shifted and seems to be falling in the trap of confusing effort with ability. Instead of creative performances we are now highlighting players who run their socks off and you wonder why supporters become angry.

I don't wonder why supporters react badly to a poor performance, that's natural. I do wonder why people make sweeping statements like 'this manager has messed up big time' and hint that we should get rid of him sooner rather than wait for him to mess up more, on the evidence of one bad defeat.

But, as I say, I must have misunderstood you on that one, for which I apologise and await your explanation.

[Ned]

[quote="shrimper"]
But, as I say, I must have misunderstood you on that one, for which I apologise and await your explanation.

On reflection I find that some of my statements are reactive and dont always take into consideration the bigger picture and as such can be misleading and counter productive.
I am sure if things dont work out for Sammy he would jump before being pushed. However whilst we have him he does have our full support but it is right that he will continue to receive criticism if things are not working regardless of what he has achieved in the past. I am amongst those that have been dissappointed with some of the summer recruits and that we are now resorting to building a team around the likes of Curtis, Hunter and Mcluaghlin who many of us were expecting would be released. I am also intrigued why the 2nd season syndrome does not seem to apply to Dagenham who despite being a smaller club in all aspects.
Anyhow for my part I will think through my future posts provided someone tells me when replying to a messageboard quote how do I get the quote to display in a red font?

[North Stand Shrimp]

you need to type.. [/quote]

at the end of the text your quoting.

[shrimper]

But, as I say, I must have misunderstood you on that one, for which I apologise and await your explanation.

On reflection I find that some of my statements are reactive and dont always take into consideration the bigger picture and as such can be misleading and counter productive.
I am sure if things dont work out for Sammy he would jump before being pushed. However whilst we have him he does have our full support but it is right that he will continue to receive criticism if things are not working regardless of what he has achieved in the past. I am amongst those that have been dissappointed with some of the summer recruits and that we are now resorting to building a team around the likes of Curtis, Hunter and Mcluaghlin who many of us were expecting would be released. I am also intrigued why the 2nd season syndrome does not seem to apply to Dagenham who despite being a smaller club in all aspects.
Anyhow for my part I will think through my future posts provided someone tells me when replying to a messageboard quote how do I get the quote to display in a red font?

Fair enough and credit to you for this post. All I would say is that it's too early to make definite judgments on A) whether Sammy's signings turn out to be good ones or not (many players take a while to settle into new teams and new divisions) and B) whether Dagenham end up being better than us or not over a full season.

(As an aside, you always stir up good debate and that may be precisely because you make controversial statements. Don't feel you have to tone it down - but you WILL, as you no doubt anticipate, get a response.)

[Keith]

...how do I get the quote to display in a red font?

Type your message (or click 'quote'), then highlight the area you want in a different colour, size or font. Then, with it highlighted, click on the colour swathe on the right (cunningly called "Font Colour")

[wonder shrimp]

Anyhow for my part I will think through my future posts provided someone tells me when replying to a messageboard quote how do I get the quote to display in a red font?

click on the 'quote' button on the message you want to, erm, quote, instead of clicking on reply. this will actually take you to the reply screen with the correctly tagged text already inserted.

once in the reply screen you can edit the text between the [quote=nameofposter] text in quote [/quote]

[campdave]

I am also intrigued why the 2nd season syndrome does not seem to apply to Dagenham who despite being a smaller club in all aspects.

I'm intrigued as to why you are basing your theory after two matches - for me, Rotherham and Wycombe are much more difficult prospects than a Chester in crisis and Lincoln. How many people are throwing their toys out of the pram based solely on the Rotherham game?

[heysham_mfc]

it will be very interesting to compare the views of people after 2 games to those after the season has finished

[seasonsinthesun]

Slow in the back four, no creativity in midfield no service to the frontmen.
Things will get better the Shrimps can do it, see where we are after a dozen games!

[USA Shrimp]

(cunningly called "Font Colour")

You cheeky bugger - nice to have some humor amongst all this negativity.

Cheers, mate !

[Ned]

Type your message (or click 'quote'), then highlight the area you want in a different colour, size or font. Then, with it highlighted, click on the colour swathe on the right (cunningly called "Font Colour")[/quote]

Dear Keith,
Thank you for the info. I appreciate the humour and am using this post to test your simple explanation as for some reason the same procedure has not previously worked for me which is a bit embarrassing as I am a qualified IT Engineer. If it has worked this time then I am puzzled but if it has not then your explanation must be missing something that you take for granted.

[Phoenix]

Type your message (or click 'quote'), then highlight the area you want in a different colour, size or font. Then, with it highlighted, click on the colour swathe on the right (cunningly called "Font Colour")

Dear Keith,
Thank you for the info. I appreciate the humour and am using this post to test your simple explanation as for some reason the same procedure has not previously worked for me which is a bit embarrassing as I am a qualified IT Engineer. If it has worked this time then I am puzzled but if it has not then your explanation must be missing something that you take for granted.

Instructions work fine for me, as you can see.

I am a qualified IT Engineer

That's one of the worst things you've ever typed I hope I've never interviewed you