Fans' views wanted

[shrimper]

http://www.morecambefc.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10866~1906515,00.html

[Duffman]

Totally 100% against this idea.

It is difficult for the football club to enforce copyright protection.

I'm a bit confused. We're changing our club crest because we can't copyright it?

[shrimper]

That's right Callum.

The current crest doesn't 'belong' to the club in any formal sense - it was allowed to use it while it was pretty much redundant but the club doesn't have any powers to protect its use.

Those rights used to belong to the local authority and will, eventually, belong to the new town council.

The club would be able to protect the use of its own new crest.

[Duffman]

I think that's a good thing, It shows the club is part of Morecambe and the community. Morecambe Football Club is Morecambe.

Is there a reason why the club need to protect it's use? It's not as if there are numerous stalls lining Lancaster road on match days selling unofficial merchandise taking money from the club.

[bigreddog]

Arsenal fans felt the same way as Callum, when they had the same problem. Their early versions upto recent times of their club crest was based on the Borough of Woolwich council crest and they couldn't enforce copyright due to the same reason Mr McGuigan has cited.

I don't think any of their fans watching them win at Anfield the other day would give a stuff about the change now. And most of them couldn't speak latin anyway.

Whoever designs the new crest would do well to get something as progressive as Arsenal's



Of course liverpool, for obvious historical reasons, went from their old style:




To their new one:

[Aspers]

How aout a badge which depicts the true Morecambe.
The background could be a bingo card. floating on a grey sea.
A 3 headed fish is jumping out of the sea and the nuclear power station is in the background.
and the motto.
Beauty Surrounds Nuclear power abounds.
Welcome to Morecambe as an Isle of Man ship steams out of the harbour with a big pound sign on the Stern.

I'll get my coat

[ezz]

Why not a shrimp in the middle instead of a boat, keep the red roses of course. Jyst not a man catching shrimp as that would make us a shrimper.
Basically we have: sea, boats, shrimp, bingo , red rose, or even a smaller version of the eric mroecambe statue.

Underneath most badges there is a small sentence, some latin etc. Maybe we could have 'JB Christie we remember' or something along those lines.

[P/T Indie]

I hate it when clubs change their badge surley they should keep the badge they have always had and I always find it a bit of a gimick.

I like our badge for the reason that it is the same as the towns badge and it represents everything about the place the town, football club etc should all come under the one badge IMO.

I am guessing that if we changed our badge then all the club merchandise would be changed meaning we would all need to but new hats, scarfs, shirts etc next season

So if it is because of the Town council does mean we have Evelyn Archer to blame

[shrimper]

I don't think there's any blame on anyone and the new crest would be used from next season so current merchandise would still be relevant (and even then I don't think anyone's going to stop wearing a perfectly good scarf just because it has the current crest on it).

The club only really 'borrowed' the current one from the 1990s onwards (when there wasn't a Morecambe council, so no-one was using it at all).

We had played for many years without any badge at all, using the town badge once or twice and then a shrimp on its own for a while in the 1980s.

Most clubs in the modern age (because they do want to stop people ripping it off - like if we have a Wembley run, for instance) have their own crests and have them copyrighted because they want to be able to protect their use.

Many will take some features from the town's coat of arms to maintain that sense of link but many others don't.

Anyway, this is all good feedback if you're emailing the club as they've asked.

[P/T Indie]

I thought the club did have some copyright on the badge didn't the old supporters team have a problem a few years ago with putting the badge on their shirt?
I am sure Morecambe Mick and Redtilldead will be able to put me straight.

I am already awaiting the new leisure wear that will no doubt be coming out to replace the end of an era stuff.

[Duffman]

I'm still not convinced and remain completely against it. I fail to see the reason for it apart from money. Moving ground is one thing which is absolutely vital to the clubs long term success and we all agree with that but changing the club's logo is unnecessary in my opinion. Too much change over the summer would surely result in the club losing much of it's character and history.

[thegentlegiant]

I personally can see where the club are coming from, the badge has represented us well over the years, but a change is needed in order to ensure Morecambe FC have full copyright.

I am 100% confident the club are doing this for the right reasons!!

I think if any Morecambe fans have any issues you should contact the club with your concerns and I am sure they will be able to give you those answers you seek and reassure you this is for the good of the club!!

[ezz]

Jesus stop moaning and help the club out with some ideas, this is your chance to have some say in a new badge which will be with the club for a long time. The badge is changing, everything changes sometime get over it and move on.

[burple]

we've only just got that bloody bus sorted out...

is it time to start saving again?

[Heysham_red]

Jesus stop moaning and help the club out with some ideas....

First the topic is called Fan's views wanted. So the post is getting fans views. So far i see nothing unhealthy about the debate and would actually like to read what peoples views are.

I am 100% confident the club are doing this for the right reasons!!

You haven't really put what you think the right reasons are but i agree and i think the right reasons is money. If the club feels the need to copy right something then they are preventing the use of it else where without there permission and therefore anyone making money from using the badge without permission becomes libel. By the way have you thought how your bus is affected by this?

Too much change over the summer would surely result in the club losing much of it's character and history.

I was actually thought this isn't such a bad idea. But this point is very valid and made me think twice. We are moving the a new stadium which will, for financial reasons, have a naming right but do we want to be moving to a new stadium with new badges scattered everywhere. it will feel like a new club!!

Alas it looks like its going to happen. So I have a couple of questions. Have we copyrighted the end of era crest? Because we could use that as a template, simple change the Christie Part to Morecambe FC, have some fancy saying at the bottom (maybe the year) and have the boat with a little red rose below it instead of the date. I personally would like to see some yellow too so that the colours are mainly Red, followed by blue/yellow/white.

[thegentlegiant]

we've only just got that bloody bus sorted out...

is it time to start saving again?

The bus will remain the same, end of and era and all of that!!! Its still part of Morecambe and our history and the bus will be a testament to morecambe's history and future!!

[Vinny]

My knee-jerk reaction to this was like Callum describes, but with it being said by Peter McGuigan that elements of the existing badge will be retained and having seen the Arsenal example, I imagine a decent improvement can be made in the way suggested.

Although I have grown to like the present crest and think it nicely represents the town and locality (and I said as such in the recent football fans survey) I have also thought the present one is a little bit naff.

I remember drawing my own Shrimps MFC badges (how sad is that ) in 1969/70 as depicted on the front of the red programme covers then, but lost them all long ago.

The bus is another matter, but maybe the Club will pay for this to be modified.

[ezz]

Jesus stop moaning and help the club out with some ideas....

First the topic is called Fan's views wanted. So the post is getting fans views. So far i see nothing unhealthy about the debate and would actually like to read what peoples views are.

I am 100% confident the club are doing this for the right reasons!!

You haven't really put what you think the right reasons are but i agree and i think the right reasons is money. If the club feels the need to copy right something then they are preventing the use of it else where without there permission and therefore anyone making money from using the badge without permission becomes libel. By the way have you thought how your bus is affected by this?

Too much change over the summer would surely result in the club losing much of it's character and history.

I was actually thought this isn't such a bad idea. But this point is very valid and made me think twice. We are moving the a new stadium which will, for financial reasons, have a naming right but do we want to be moving to a new stadium with new badges scattered everywhere. it will feel like a new club!!

Alas it looks like its going to happen. So I have a couple of questions. Have we copyrighted the end of era crest? Because we could use that as a template, simple change the Christie Part to Morecambe FC, have some fancy saying at the bottom (maybe the year) and have the boat with a little red rose below it instead of the date. I personally would like to see some yellow too so that the colours are mainly Red, followed by blue/yellow/white.

If you read the official website the club are asking for ideas for the new badge, not whether we should change it or not. The fact is we are changing it, so help out with some ideas. Personally I dont think our current crest is that great, hopefully the new one will look the part and along with our stadium be something to be proud of

[Christies Child]

By owning the copyright on any crest it would enable the club to use it in whatever marketing and promotional use it decided. Going forward it may transpire that one day the 'owners' of the present crest may not wish for it to be used or modified by any organisation other than themselves.

For that reason I'm totally in favour of the proposal.

However it would be nice to be able to retain some elements of the present crest by possibly using elements of the present design in a more graphical way.

Whatever is proposed MUST be able to stand the passage of time and not be 'in vogue' today and gone tomorrow.

Whoever is charged with the re-design have a mamouth task ahead of them. Speaking from personal experience, designing something of significance, particularly a crest representative of a particular body with all the tradition that goes with it, will be no easy task.

[Duffman]

I'm all for progression and modernisation but I'm not sure changing the club's crest is really worth it. I may come round to it once I have seen the designs but as I touched on earlier, too much change might have a negative effect. I don't have a problem with the new ground not having a "proper" name, I accept that's part and parcel of the modern game but for me the club crest should be untouched and should act as a bridge between the new and the old.

Morecambe FC are a club which is important to the local community and is (dare I say it?) one of the few positive things about the town, it is not a franchise you can re-brand. I don't want to come across as too negative but I would like us not to forget where we have come from.

[ezz]

The new badge probably won't look that different, it just has to be different enough to be able to make it their own in a way they can protect it with copyright laws. Why can't the new badge still be a bridge from the old to the new? It can still represent the same things, Morecambe itself has changed over the last 10-20 years so why not have something from the old morecambe like fishing/shrimps and something more modern in the crest as well (not the polo tower ).
I imagine it will be similar with a sea background with either a boat or shrimp on it, red roses etc. It will be a similar crest unless we get some really good ideas from ourselves to create a new badge that everyone will like.

[morecambe mick]

I thought the club did have some copyright on the badge didn't the old supporters team have a problem a few years ago with putting the badge on their shirt?
I am sure Morecambe Mick and Redtilldead will be able to put me straight.

I am already awaiting the new leisure wear that will no doubt be coming out to replace the end of an era stuff.

I'll help if I can Phil.
A member of the then commercial team was asked about fans buying the yellow away shirt, to be told that there wasn't enough call to get the stock in. We, rather Jim G sourced the shirt in use, Evertons yellow shirt with our badge on.
We agreed a purchase price with the suppliers Umbro I believe, and approached the club for permission to use the club badge - they refused.
So the council was asked if we could use the old Morecambe and Heysham town badge they agreed. The current Morecambe FC badge is that town crest with the club's name underneath, instead of the club's name we had "Morecambe supporters". To my knowledge there were only 21 made, and I don't think we paid anymore than £25.
I'm not sure I like the idea of changing badge, think how many times Leeds have changed theirs. I understand the copyright thing, just seems like too much all at once as someone else said. I can understand the timing too, new ground get the new club crest up first time etc. It'll save money in the end.
One other thing I thought of straight away was, that man from Bare Rangers who complains about Morecambe Youth playing with the same badge as the first team will have to shut up now! He won't let any of their teams play in friendlies against Morecambe Youth because of the badge situation.... kids football for God's sake!!

Also, I said ".....if Morecambe win at Wembley, I'll get the Morecambe FC crest tattoo'd on my arm" (would be the only one!!!!!).
I'll have to get two done now

[outsider]

Could the idea of a new club badge, have anthing to do with wanting a giant version for the front/outside of the new stadium? I say why not out with the old in with the new onwards and upwards all in one go.

Personaly I like the plane ship on the end of era stuff, Why not just that with "Morecambe Football Club" above and " The Shrimps" underneath?

[morecambe mick]

Could the idea of a new club badge, have anthing to do with wanting a giant version for the front/outside of the new stadium? I say why not out with the old in with the new onwards and upwards all in one go.

Personaly I like the plane ship on the end of era stuff, Why not just that with "Morecambe Football Club" above and " The Shrimps" underneath?

I can understand the timing too, new ground get the new club crest up first time etc. It'll save money in the end.

"plane ship"

[P/T Indie]

We agreed a purchase price with the suppliers Umbro I believe, and approached the club for permission to use the club badge - they refused.
So the council was asked if we could use the old Morecambe and Heysham town badge they agreed. The current Morecambe FC badge is that town crest with the club's name underneath, instead of the club's name we had "Morecambe supporters".


That's what I don't get so there is a difference between the clubs badge and the town council badge already so there is no need for a new badge all be it just the writting underneath but if that's enought to get copyright on we don't need to change anything.