O/T We'll fight them on the prom

[Phoenix]

Interesting headline in this weeks visitor and what a load of bollox from a councillor. Apparently they are questioning Urban Splash's plans for the promenade developments. That's it, let them spend £11million (of various peoples money) doing up the Midland so the council don't have an embarrassing eyesore on their promenade then knock back their development plans. Do the council honestly think Urban Splash will recoup their hotel investment through the hotel alone?

And just what view is it the flats will hide? The view from Woollies and Hitchens? What a lovely view it used to be, Bubbles with it's plastic slides. Will flats be any worse than the view the council gave us? The council that demolished the magnificent old baths when the repair cost was half the build cost of Bubbles? (Figures from the engineer that costed the old bath repairs). Wouldn't it have been good if Urban Splash had been around all those years ago?

If the plans are knocked back this town hasn't got a chance for a future.

Best of all are Evelyns plans to canvas public opinion. FFS, Morecambe Arndale on a Monday. Like a lot of people, I have a day job Monday to Friday, pays my wages so I can pay my council tax. It's the likes of ME AND MY FAMILY that Evelyn should be asking but I can't remember once in 47 years being asked my opinion by a member of the council.

As for Wayne, I thought his comments were directly aimed at the hotel and not the rest of the development?????

My town used to be a joke and I thought the joke had worn out, obviously not.


(I was goint to add the usual "rant over" but it damned well ain't over yet)

[bigreddog]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Somebody talking sense about the town.

I'm afraid Mrs Archer hasn't got the first clue how to regenerate anything. just got £200,000 from the North West Development Agency and still can't resist campaigning against anything that she hasn't thought of. Urban Splash, M6 Link, Housing.

When I wan't advice on the economy, I talk with an economist. When I'm ill, I go to my doctor. So when I'm looking for regeneration ideas, who do I go to? Tom Bloxom who's rebuilt Manchester ? or somebody who's spent 20 years achieving nothing and a bloke who designs jeans ?

Q: How many MBI's does it take to change a light bulb?
A: 12, 1 to change the light bulb and the other 11 to spend all day complaining that the old light bulb worked much better before Lancaster City Council took over.

FFS get over yourselves.

[Phoenix]

Let's get one thing staight before it degenerates into a political debate. I don't actually know what party Evelyn is aligned to and I don't care. Evelyn has managed to get her thoughts on the front page of the Visitor then hides in the Arndale on a Monday. What chance have I got to put my thoughts across to Evelyn?

It's about time some of us got off our arses and put an end to this minority voting at council elections. It appears to be the only way we get the people in charge we think would be good for our town.

Take Posh for example, whether I agree with his political alignment or not, I've read his comments on Morecambe on this forum and I'd vote him onto the council any day because he's got passion for this town.

[shrimper]

"What chance have I got to put my thoughts across to Evelyn?"

http://www.thevisitor.co.uk/morecambe-news/Fears-over-Morecambe-promenade-remodel.4231870.jp

Message to everyone - If you can't make it to the Arndale, or if you just want to share your opinions with Visitor readers and the wider world (agreeing with the posts so far on this thread OR NOT) feel free to leave a comment by using the comment function on the Visitor website story.

We'll try to use some of those posted on the story in next week's paper.

(Or you could just write to or email The Visitor)

12 Victoria Street
Morecambe
LA4 4AG

visitor@lmnews.co.uk

[4G63]

Interesting headline in this weeks visitor and what a load of bollox from a councillor. Apparently they are questioning Urban Splash's plans for the promenade developments. That's it, let them spend £11million (of various peoples money) doing up the Midland so the council don't have an embarrassing eyesore on their promenade then knock back their development plans. Do the council honestly think Urban Splash will recoup their hotel investment through the hotel alone?

And just what view is it the flats will hide? The view from Woollies and Hitchens? What a lovely view it used to be, Bubbles with it's plastic slides. Will flats be any worse than the view the council gave us? The council that demolished the magnificent old baths when the repair cost was half the build cost of Bubbles? (Figures from the engineer that costed the old bath repairs). Wouldn't it have been good if Urban Splash had been around all those years ago?

If the plans are knocked back this town hasn't got a chance for a future.

Best of all are Evelyns plans to canvas public opinion. FFS, Morecambe Arndale on a Monday. Like a lot of people, I have a day job Monday to Friday, pays my wages so I can pay my council tax. It's the likes of ME AND MY FAMILY that Evelyn should be asking but I can't remember once in 47 years being asked my opinion by a member of the council.

As for Wayne, I thought his comments were directly aimed at the hotel and not the rest of the development?????

My town used to be a joke and I thought the joke had worn out, obviously not.


(I was goint to add the usual "rant over" but it damned well ain't over yet)

Couldn't agree more. This town has nothing going for it right now.

[Phoenix]

What I've got to say doesn't come across in print. I'll go find Evelyn one day at the town hall, I couldn't work much closer to it

[Phoenix]

While I'm on a roll ......

If you walk on the landward side of the site they are planning to develop, just about the full length from Northumberland Street to the Platform THERE IS NO VIEW to spoil.

Because of the gradient of the seaward side of the prom and the slope, bushes and banking that exists where the old baths and the pool was, you simply can't see the sea or lakeland hills beyond. Well, maybe the odd glimpse or two. Go on Evelyn, get some exercise, walk past Woollies and Hitchens and send us some snaps of your "view". You get a good view round the back of the old baths (sorry, can't bring myself to call that area bubbles) where the view isn't going to be spoiled by the development.

The only view I can think would be spoiled is those of the Winter Gardens crowd who were hanging off the top balcony when the MFC open top bus went past.

[Joel Ninety]

One of the many reasons I just moved away from Morecambe to London, being totally sick of the council and miserable local sods just pissing all over any plans for the town's future. Any sign of progress is met with the bloody Greens moaning about some sort of rare sawdust being moved and oldies just generally bitching about everything. Morecambe needs more, and now the Midland is open and is actually beautiful inside and out it has a starting point. The beachcomber plan looked impressive, as did the Urban Splash one. And the Lancaster one near the St Leonard's Gate area should be built too.

[Shrimpsscene]

would be fantastic if urban splash could get some dosh to build a pier
something along the lines of a southwold pier with shops cafe and features??
we dont need flats in that part of the garden do we or a second hotel??
save our jug of tea £1.50 sign someone that should be listed
and whilst were at it
a fish restaurant on the prom
a zoo at the end of the jetty too would be cool....ho hum
and a beach party this summer!!!!!!
lots of positives in the town at the moment me thinks
i do think a pier would be fantastic and a real draw for visitors

[PUNKISDEAD]

Hello
my opinion is that the midland hotel itself will be flats in the next 3-5 years, urban splash seem to me to be succesful grant winning builders, and not hoteliers, once the building was finished they seem to have had to take on running it in the absence of anyone in the established hotel trade wanting to, i am no expert at all in hotel management or politics but my feeling is that urban splash wanted to hand it over to an established hotel chain on completion, anyway, if it fails as a hotel it could be developed into flats, i suppose.... but who would take on that task..???

I know, what about...somebody like ...URBAN SPLASH!!!

[Phoenix]

Urban Splash aren't hoteliers, and they're not running the Midland which is in the hands of a management company. That's what Wayne was on about, getting a better company in to run it.

[Curly]

would be fantastic if urban splash could get some dosh to build a pier
something along the lines of a southwold pier with shops cafe and features??
we dont need flats in that part of the garden do we or a second hotel??
save our jug of tea £1.50 sign someone that should be listed
and whilst were at it
a fish restaurant on the prom
a zoo at the end of the jetty too would be cool....ho hum
and a beach party this summer!!!!!!
lots of positives in the town at the moment me thinks
i do think a pier would be fantastic and a real draw for visitors

Wow! That post took me back.
I remember the animal prison (couldn't call it a zoo) at the end of the jetty.
That black bear kept in a cell it could hardly turn round in.

Would love to see another pier though, but it'll never happen.
Anyone remember going down to beach when the west end pier got destroyed in that
storm and collecting money from all the broken slot machines. Happy Days.

[Loyalsupporter]

I truly believe that something drastic needs to happen to our council, many local residents want morecambe to become a popular resort once again, but there are far to many who are against change most of my life I have felt that Mcbe has become a retirement town and all I have heard is how Mcbe was the best resort and everyone came to Mcbe in summer.

Its as if all the elderly came here wen they were young pulled the place to peaces and stayed here now its become boring and peaceful.


I think it is time for a change and the positive enthusiasic people should somehow get together and try create a better Mcbe.

I have plenty of friends who feel the same, but they are like my rant they say it once in a while when the topic crops up then they carry on as normal as nothing ever happens.

reform the council with some local enthusiasts who want a better Mcbe Town

[campdave]

Hello
my opinion is that the midland hotel itself will be flats in the next 3-5 years, urban splash seem to me to be succesful grant winning builders, and not hoteliers, once the building was finished they seem to have had to take on running it in the absence of anyone in the established hotel trade wanting to, i am no expert at all in hotel management or politics but my feeling is that urban splash wanted to hand it over to an established hotel chain on completion, anyway, if it fails as a hotel it could be developed into flats, i suppose.... but who would take on that task..???

I know, what about...somebody like ...URBAN SPLASH!!!

If they wanted to hand it over to established hoteliers, why would they then now be looking at other buildings to convert to hotels?

[BHmfc]

On the topic of re-generation, do we really need the Winter Gardens returned to it's original use as a theatre. I'm all for keeping and restoring the outside of the building but internally i believe it should be divided into 3 or 4 units which could perhaps be developed into a Morecambe museum, a small sea life centre and chidrens play centre. It could be similar to the tower in Blackpool, which also includes cafes and bars. I respect all the hard work the friends of the W Gardens have done over the years, but a multi-use building would benefit Morecambe far greater than a large theatre, which i believe would struggle to pay it's way, after all we already have the Platform, Dome, Dukes and Grand.

[shrimper]

They ARE planning a multi-use venue with a smaller, more modern 'theatre' auditorium capable of holding shows, stand-up comedians and the occasional gig but also with the potential to convert to a function space as well.
Morecambe/comedy museum in part of it, restaurant and bars are also in their thinking. The Platform is not ideal for performances because of lighting and acoustics (better for exhibitions, art/music workshops and tea-dances IMO) and the Dome is not a great venue either (though it has hosted some fantastic events).

My own view on the general development of central Morecambe is that if we are going to develop a lot of the things some people say they want, then we do need to get more 'happening' there and we need to bring in a new wave of residents to populate that part of the town (either in owned holiday apartments or even permanent ones - perhaps people working in Lancaster may migrate this way for the views).
THEY will then help drive the demand for these new fish restaurants, better pubs, new quality shops and, possibly, a marina (may own a boat, may be into windsurfing, water ski-ing or kite surfing).
They will also help keep that part of the town vibrant 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. If there aren't people living and working in that part of town, whatever attraction/s you put there it's always going to be desolate in winter and at nights.
But I accept it's a matter of scale and location - I think it can probably be solved through a bit of give and take and people talking to each other.
If you're happy tidying up a bit and landscaping then that's fair enough, we'll still get visitors at peak times when the weather's nice.
But I don't think that alone will enable the town to bring in the other things some people want.

I'd still love living in the place whatever - but the town needs to make its mind up which way it wants to go.

[campdave]

The Platform is not ideal for performances because of lighting and acoustics (better for exhibitions, art/music workshops and tea-dances IMO)

"not ideal" is a vast understatement - it's pathetic. Been to two comedy shows recently (John Bishop and I forget who else - maybe Andy Parsons) and for them not to be able to black out the window in the roof kind of kills the atmosphere - makes it feel more like a seminar than a comedy gig.

Although it is always amusing to see the look on the acts faces when they come out and see the venue. Personally, I think it's a reason that a lot of touring comedians don't come back to the venue, and you can't really blame them. I've lived in Morecambe for 4 years now, and the only comedian I've seen there twice is Richard Herring, and he has criticised the venue twice in his blog. Bad word of mouth will undoubtedly spread.

[Posh]

We've been down this route so many times and I've made my case a lot but here's a quick summary:

1. In the time since The Friends of the Winter Gardens purchased their building, Urban Splash have raised capital, got grant funding, liased with authorities, opened a new revitalised Midland and got bags of publicity. Evelyn Archer should be kissing their feet.

2. The land between the Midland and the Dome is a disgrace. From the other side of the Prom you can't see the Bay or the Lakes - fact! You've got to wonder she and cronies related to the MBI persist with this lie. At best buildings on this section would obscure 400 yards of view over 7 1/2 miles of prom. Mind you a prom will still run along the seaward side of the new building.

3. Lancaster City Council deserve praise not criticism. They paid over a £100,000 to make the Winter Gardens watertight and had to write off the money because no one was prepared to pay it back. They were fundamental in ensuring that Urban Splash came to The Midland and led discussions to secure vital funding from English Heritage and the NWDA. They have brilliantly led and organised the sea defence programmes, which have given us the Tern project, Flock of Words, West End Gardens, cleaned up Sandylands etc. They are leading regeneration of Morecambe and council officers are being blocked because a minority of city councillors have their own narrow agendas.

4. The scheme for the Prom is brilliant. At worst an intelligent but critical person would take a long serious look at the plans and see how such investment (in a bad economy) could be altered or used cleverly. Instead its another Ian Paisley style NO! NO! NO! from Evelyn and the MBI.

5. The MBI tried to block the M6 Northern Route, are trying to block Urban Splash (Morecambe's biggest investor) on the prom, tried to block developments on the fairground site, opposed the splash park in Happy Mount Park and much more. When are people going wake up and smell the sea air and realise that rather than being saviours - they have no ideas, no solutions, no contacts but big egos. Their downfall will be the Town Council - an utter waste of public money, driven by sentiment and a lack of logic.

In my view more front pages like this weeks and you can say goodbye to The Midland and any hope of Morecambe's regeneration.

[Freez]

Personally I couldnt give a shit about attractions and all the other bollocks to "bring" people to Morecambe for the day or the weekend.
The Midland is now back to magnificent, the view across the bay, even on a shite but clear winters day has to be seen to be believed, and the statue is still bringing people in.

Make Morecambe a nice place to be, ie LIVE, and it will be a lovely place for people to visit and stay if they wish to. If people find it a pleasant to be and to live here, then they will want nice places to eat, drink and be entertained, hey presto, a thriving town who get plenty of visitors for the warmth of their welcome and the stunning scenery.

What chance of M & S on the Fontierland sight? Or John Lewis?

The site featured in the Citize..sorry Visitor is currently a bloody eyesore, some retail and posh flats would hardly make it worse, somebody somewhere is having a laugh complaining, bet they don't live near it!

The seeds of re-generation are there, the Midland, the shops selling quality goods in the Winter Gardens units, the beaches looking great, the massive 4 storey wrecked properties on Sandylands prom now being done up, Homebase and Next packed every day.

OK it's not much but its a start, FFS lets stop trying to make this a "resort" and just make it a nice place to be, the bay view will do the rest

Freez
Sand Grown 'Un.

[Christies Child]

The problem with this concern is that it is being driven by somebody who has fannyed around for more years than i care to think of with a single obsession about the Winter Gardens.

We all want to see the WG back in business but please, please there are other issues in the town that need addreessing...the old Band Arena being one.

For me there's nothing wrong in building a modern complex of housing and commercial properties in a single scheme.

Am i wrong but didn't we go thru' a public consultation exercise a few years ago about what could be envisaged for the area. Can't recall such an outcry by this individual at the time!

It always seems to me that whenever the town has an opportunity to take one step forward it takes two steps back!

[Phoenix]

What I don't like to read are "The MBIs have done this" or "Labour have done that". I'd love to see politics kicked out of local councils. What I want is someone in power that will do what they said they would when I voted for them. Not someone who follows a party line. I'm sick & tired of the parties throwing mud at each other and we, the citizens of this amazing town, suffer because of their petty arguments and tit-for-tat decisions.

I'm going for a walk tonight with camera and I'll record what a lovely view you get already from the front of the winter gardens. Will that make the front page? Go on shrimper, public permission to re-print what I've already typed in this thread. You might have to explain or remove things like FFS though

Sack the board!





Anyone remember going down to beach when the west end pier got destroyed in that
storm and collecting money from all the broken slot machines.

Ben Woodhouse trawled a plastic pink pig out of the Bay not long after and used it as a kids swing in his back garden

Ernie Nicholson was trawling in the Bay once and a seal jumped on board for a free feed. Wouldn't go so he took it to Marineland where they named it Ernie.

Plenty of tales about Peter Johnson winding me up as a kid

[Posh]

What I don't like to read are "The MBIs have done this" or "Labour have done that". I'd love to see politics kicked out of local councils. What I want is someone in power that will do what they said they would when I voted for them. Not someone who follows a party line. I'm sick & tired of the parties throwing mud at each other and we, the citizens of this amazing town, suffer because of their petty arguments and tit-for-tat decisions.

The only reason I mentioned the MBIs is that I have to make the point. If Evelyn was just Joan Public then she wouldn't be on the front of the paper. Instead she's the leader of a party that claims to want to do good for Morecambe but, in my view, has sent it backwards.

However, I'll say this for them at least they've got the balls to stand for election and try to make a difference. A certain Shrimpsvoicer is currently doing a good job as Chair of the Licensing Committee in difficult circumstances and I applaud him for giving it a go.

The problem is that there are far too many decision-makers, layers of government and people who lack either have the knowledge, passion, commitment, intelligence or contacts to make a difference.

Soon Morecambe's democratic (non-democratic structure) will be as follows:

Morecambe Town Council (could look after The Dome) - elected - let's say 30 unpaid people with no budget - are you going to really get the best for the town?

Lancaster City Council (looks after the car park outside The Dome) - about 20 out of 60 councillors each paid about £4,000 a year - again with very little meaningful power

Lancashire County Council (looks after the road outside The Dome) - about 3 from 90 councillors representing Morecambe - responsible for 90% of local spending yet I think most people would be hard-pressed to name their County Councillor or what they do.

UK Government (controls 2/3rds of budgets for the above) - 1 out 652 representing Morecambe - actually behind many of the decisions on a micro-level which improve our towns but in which our MP has no say at all. E.g. Sea defences, cycle routes, sea front premises grants etc. are all given to councils with little knowledge or say so from anyone.

I'd be happier with one powerful local authority with less but well-paid councillors who can execute decisions well. The government picks up the rest.

[Phoenix]

Posh, as ever a well reasoned argument which is why I'd like to see you on the council. As for Evelyn, whether she's Joe Public or Prime Minister in her spare time, she made the front page because she's a councillor with the power to screw up a major local decision.

Just sorting out the photos while I can see my girlfriend in the corner reading what I've just lectured her about for the last half hour

[Phoenix]

Photos here http://www.camsak.com/v/080703/ just adding some descriptive text.

While we're on about views, I wonder what Evelyn's going to do about the view from Eric. No, not the beautiful view across the Bay but the other way, the one we all try to avoid. The boarded up Royal. Smiths, trying hard with a bit of planking but look up next time. And lets not forget Freds On The Ball, how those windows have managed not to fall out is a credit to the glazier.

Flats on the promenade? The least of our worries. Not that there's a half decent road to get the tourists into town in the first place

[Phoenix]

I like this photo so much I thought I'd point it out to everyone

http://www.camsak.com/v/080703/CIMG0220.jpg.html

Un-touched colours from a pocket camera, sunshine & storms. This is the sort of view I like so much that instead of driving straight to work in Lancaster, I divert to the prom and drive from Broadway to Queen Street most mornings coming home the long way with the views dropping down into Slyne and then from Hest Bank to home.