Sweet justice O/T

[Trevor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg0ov1LUdOU

Chav yob picks on wrong man.

Warning: Comments contain bad language.

[ezz]

Excellent!!! If only every moron like him experienced the same thing, England would be a nicer place.

[Heysham_Shrimp]

whats the chances of the guy who hit the yob ending up in court and the yob receiving compensation !

[ezz]

He was provoked and it was self defence as the yob was coming straight for him. Not to mention the extremely threatening behaviour whilst the guy stayed calm until he was attacked, I think (hope) the yob gets nothing from it.

[shrimper]

Ironically had it not been for the video, the yob may indeed have tried to pursue it.

Not a chance at all of that happening now.

I suspect this was filmed by his chavvy mates as a kind of 'happy-slapping' thing but as it happens it's great evidence for the householder if anyone ever tried to make a claim against him.

He is quite clearly acting in self-defence after provocation that was prolonged and threatening (which, in itself, is a criminal offence); he refrains from taking the attack on the chav any further, even when he could easily have done having put him on the floor.

The householder could, if he wanted, take action against the yob for threatening behaviour, but I reckon he'd just be satisfied with the outcome.

[sgt major]

Ironically had it not been for the video, the yob may indeed have tried to pursue it.

Not a chance at all of that happening now.

I suspect this was filmed by his chavvy mates as a kind of 'happy-slapping' thing but as it happens it's great evidence for the householder if anyone ever tried to make a claim against him.

He is quite clearly acting in self-defence after provocation that was prolonged and threatening (which, in itself, is a criminal offence); he refrains from taking the attack on the chav any further, even when he could easily have done having put him on the floor.

The householder could, if he wanted, take action against the yob for threatening behaviour, but I reckon he'd just be satisfied with the outcome.

Yes - what a pity there wasn't anyone around to protect that person who was robbed at knifepoint on Schola Green Lane (as reported in the Visitor). I would imagine the money would be used for drugs - and they still want the druggies to use the Old Conservative building as a needle exchange. DISC who want to open it admit they could not manage anyone who left the building and the police seem to be stretched all the time - it looks like the only justice on the streets is to come from the normal law abiding people.

Sad days indeed.

[Heysham_red]

Found the below on the intertube which makes this even better!

"This is at the Four Acre estate in St Helens.... Read more

I know both chaps especially the one in the vest. This was only posted recently on You Tube, but I believe it happened nearly 2 years ago.

The gentleman with the beard and his young family had been subjected to all sorts of shoite from this lad and a group of his cronies for ages. He had to show huge restraint as he knew if he did anything that the gathering crowd could use as an excuse to join in they would do.

Mr Beard had accused Mr Vest of trying to steal the motor bike and Mr Vest had taken umbridge to such an outlandish accusation and smear of his good character.

Mr Vest is currently taking massive stick around St Helens and is apparently making attempts to get the footage removed from You Tube....I can't think why"

The upload is because he finished with his bird (the one who is filming) and she wanted everyone to see it. Brilliant stuff.

The other good news is that these seems to be doing the rounds on a number of footy forums and even music forums!

Name and shame! thats the way forward.

[ezz]

He should have an ASBO anyway, is it me or did the guy with the beard have a pretty sweet karate stance
Everybody wants Kung Fu fighting!!!!

[shrimper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWAE451XIFI


And I take it we've all seen this by now?

[durhamshrimp]

whats the chances of the guy who hit the yob ending up in court and the yob receiving compensation !

There is no chance of that happening. Its just the kind of thing moaners like to think happen to justify them being so thick.

[durhamshrimp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg0ov1LUdOU

Chav yob picks on wrong man.

Warning: Comments contain bad language.

I wouldn't have waited as long as that guy did, he was very patient.

[Why no t]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWAE451XIFI


And I take it we've all seen this by now?

I've seen a longer version where the thugs had already attacked someone else a few minutes earlier.

[Posh]

Yes - what a pity there wasn't anyone around to protect that person who was robbed at knifepoint on Schola Green Lane (as reported in the Visitor). I would imagine the money would be used for drugs - and they still want the druggies to use the Old Conservative building as a needle exchange. DISC who want to open it admit they could not manage anyone who left the building and the police seem to be stretched all the time - it looks like the only justice on the streets is to come from the normal law abiding people.

I read your letter in The Visitor with the same sense of dismay that I read this post.

So you oppose the drug rehabilitation centre. How do you think that helps the problem you refer to?

People addicted to drugs of all kinds including alcohol ae around us everywhere. Some cope with their addiction and we don't notice it. Some have to fund their addiction through crime. And others while under the influence of their chosen drug are a menace to society.

What we need is action to rehabilitate these people, to look at the wider causes for their addiction and to treat it and hence to remove the secondary problems for society such as criminality. That is the intention of this centre and that's why it should be supported.

Yet a centre makes drug addicts visible and that's a problem for Nimbys and people who don't want to recognise the problem. Well the problem is there as spending an hour in Boots in the West End of Morecambe would show you as heroin addicts queue for their methadone. Drug addicts are all around they just don't have a big badge on them saying so.

Closing your eyes and hoping it goes away isn't an option.

[campdave]

I read your letter in The Visitor with the same sense of dismay that I read this post.

So you oppose the drug rehabilitation centre. How do you think that helps the problem you refer to?

People addicted to drugs of all kinds including alcohol ae around us everywhere. Some cope with their addiction and we don't notice it. Some have to fund their addiction through crime. And others while under the influence of their chosen drug are a menace to society.

What we need is action to rehabilitate these people, to look at the wider causes for their addiction and to treat it and hence to remove the secondary problems for society such as criminality. That is the intention of this centre and that's why it should be supported.

Yet a centre makes drug addicts visible and that's a problem for Nimbys and people who don't want to recognise the problem. Well the problem is there as spending an hour in Boots in the West End of Morecambe would show you as heroin addicts queue for their methadone. Drug addicts are all around they just don't have a big badge on them saying so.

Closing your eyes and hoping it goes away isn't an option.

I'm all for rehabilitation of all people with any form of addiction, and I'm not sure what kind of impact these centres may have in other areas where they already exist, and I understand wherever they go, they will impact upon the local residents.

However, if the centre does bring issues associated with drug usage (which I don't know if it will or not - are there comparable statistics/examples from similar facilities), then IMO local residents have a right to be concerned, however worthy the cause.

Any centre opening up, regardless of location, should have the concerns of it's clients at the centre, and the impact on the local community a close second.

[wijit]

Having promised myself to stay off this place, I can't help but pop my head in here. We live in east manchester and in an area where there is an abundance of these types of places. Going up my road one way we have a house which is for teenage boys who have committed crimes not serious enough for detention but bad enough to take them away from their family homes, down the main road from there is another for girls. If I go the other way up my road there is a halfway house for sex offenders, a bit further is a place just like the one they want to turn the Con club into.
We have lots of problems around here, large gangs of teenage kids hanging around drinking (but nobody serves them!), quite a few idndecent assaults and so many burglaries it's hard to decide whether to lock your dor or leave it open so it doesn't get kicked in. Thankfully, the local police do a cracing job of catching burglars.
My point is that none of these problems are caused by the occupants of the place I mentioned above. Relevantly, the drug rehabilitation place is a fantastically run and well supervised place. So much so that my neighbour has only just found out it's there!
There are no neon loghts saying "DRUGS HERE!", the streets are not littered with syringes and those visiting do just that, they go in and come out, then go home or where ever they go.
What people in Morecambe are doing is making the mistake thinking the people seeking help will be living there, or generally hanging around and making the place look like a drug den.
We even have a 24 hour pharmacy nearby which copes extremely well with the comings and goings of "druggies". The people seeking help are not the ones who will rob grannies of their pensions or steal mobile phones from your hand. I think they are an easy target becasue you can see them looking for help. You will walk past, every day, people addicted to allsorts of things be it drugs, alcohol, gambling or whatever and they go past you largely anonymously.

[campdave]

wijit - thanks for the post.

I received the information about the drugs centre as I leave nearby, but couldn't find any information about what impact other similar centres have had, so I couldn't justify myself signing the petition.

[sgt major]

Yes - what a pity there wasn't anyone around to protect that person who was robbed at knifepoint on Schola Green Lane (as reported in the Visitor). I would imagine the money would be used for drugs - and they still want the druggies to use the Old Conservative building as a needle exchange. DISC who want to open it admit they could not manage anyone who left the building and the police seem to be stretched all the time - it looks like the only justice on the streets is to come from the normal law abiding people.

I read your letter in The Visitor with the same sense of dismay that I read this post.

So you oppose the drug rehabilitation centre. How do you think that helps the problem you refer to?

People addicted to drugs of all kinds including alcohol ae around us everywhere. Some cope with their addiction and we don't notice it. Some have to fund their addiction through crime. And others while under the influence of their chosen drug are a menace to society.

What we need is action to rehabilitate these people, to look at the wider causes for their addiction and to treat it and hence to remove the secondary problems for society such as criminality. That is the intention of this centre and that's why it should be supported.

Yet a centre makes drug addicts visible and that's a problem for Nimbys and people who don't want to recognise the problem. Well the problem is there as spending an hour in Boots in the West End of Morecambe would show you as heroin addicts queue for their methadone. Drug addicts are all around they just don't have a big badge on them saying so.

Closing your eyes and hoping it goes away isn't an option.

Would you be happy with it next to your business premises then Mike, or even just a few yards from your house??????

You could then spend many happy hours looking out for your wife and children and making sure they are not getting mugged.

Stop being politically correct and admit most of them are a menace to society - remember - they had a choice. Take them or don't take them.

[Moose]

[George Dawes]

that bloke acted superb he kept his discipline aslong as possible, then acted in self defence


but there would have been probably comebacks after that like his car getting wrecked, house windows getting smashed in, his kids getting bullied, such as life on a lot of them estates, they tend to bread ill mannered people



but call me old fashioned, id love a national service it sure would sort out a lot of problems and not just social ones in this country and all the Lefty's
& pacifists just put them in the red cross

[wijit]

Yes - what a pity there wasn't anyone around to protect that person who was robbed at knifepoint on Schola Green Lane (as reported in the Visitor). I would imagine the money would be used for drugs - and they still want the druggies to use the Old Conservative building as a needle exchange. DISC who want to open it admit they could not manage anyone who left the building and the police seem to be stretched all the time - it looks like the only justice on the streets is to come from the normal law abiding people.

I read your letter in The Visitor with the same sense of dismay that I read this post.

So you oppose the drug rehabilitation centre. How do you think that helps the problem you refer to?

People addicted to drugs of all kinds including alcohol ae around us everywhere. Some cope with their addiction and we don't notice it. Some have to fund their addiction through crime. And others while under the influence of their chosen drug are a menace to society.

What we need is action to rehabilitate these people, to look at the wider causes for their addiction and to treat it and hence to remove the secondary problems for society such as criminality. That is the intention of this centre and that's why it should be supported.

Yet a centre makes drug addicts visible and that's a problem for Nimbys and people who don't want to recognise the problem. Well the problem is there as spending an hour in Boots in the West End of Morecambe would show you as heroin addicts queue for their methadone. Drug addicts are all around they just don't have a big badge on them saying so.

Closing your eyes and hoping it goes away isn't an option.

Would you be happy with it next to your business premises then Mike, or even just a few yards from your house??????

You could then spend many happy hours looking out for your wife and children and making sure they are not getting mugged.

Stop being politically correct and admit most of them are a menace to society - remember - they had a choice. Take them or don't take them.

Sgt. Please have a good read of my post somewhere above. The people who use this type of place aren't the ones who cause the problems. They ones who do are the ones who aren't looking for help, they're the ones we look at and blame for everything. We pigeon-hole all of these individuals because it's easier to do that than to accept that some people make the wrong choices in life but are actually trying to do something about it. I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that whilst not being "happy" to have several of these places withing 400 yards of my house, we have had no problems at all from them or their visitors. There is a park opposite one where I take my son to play football the very worst thing that happens is that we have several supporters watching whilst they wait for the doors to mopen. They're no problem, pleasant enough to chat to and don't leave needles, stubs or dead bodies lying around.
I have not a single worry that they will mug me, my son or Mrs wijit. there may well be people who might want to, but they aren't the ones using the centres.
You can not have any of these centres and then the problem gets worse. then you really DO get a problem.

[Posh]

Would you be happy with it next to your business premises then Mike, or even just a few yards from your house??????

My business spent four years located just 30 feet from a halfway house for young offenders following release from prison and I'm fully aware of the issues. When I lived in in London with my ex-wife we lived two doors up from a drug clinic and rehabilitation centre. As Wijit says, most local people didn't even know it was there. So in answer to your question while I wouldn't be jumping for joy I'd accept it.

I'm a trustee at the Marsh Community Centre and also a governor at Appletree Nursery Centre where we have outreach workers working with families with drug dependency issues. The vast majority are good people desperately in need of help and the bad ones won't accept and would never willingly go to a facility like this. All you're doing is blocking the chance and keeping going this dependency.

Stop being politically correct and admit most of them are a menace to society - remember - they had a choice. Take them or don't take them.

Of course they had a choice whether they took drugs or not. What some of them didn't have a choice about was when their father regularly beat them in a drunken rage; when their Mother's boyfriend sexually abused them night after night after night; when they were bullied in school and beaten up after it and no one did anything about it; whether their mother had her own drug habit, which for some meant living in a home of incredible deprivation, used for prostitution and a stopover for other addicts. As a result these young people grow up feeling worthless and it doesn't take much for someone who they think cares for them or want to impress to give them drugs and very quickly the slipperly slope starts.

It is these people a centre is there to help.

[Keith]

Of course they had a choice whether they took drugs or not. What some of them didn't have a choice about was when their father regularly beat them in a drunken rage; when their Mother's boyfriend sexually abused them night after night after night; when they were bullied in school and beaten up after it and no one did anything about it; whether their mother had her own drug habit, which for some meant living in a home of incredible deprivation, used for prostitution and a stopover for other addicts...

And just in case you think this is not what really happens... what would Posh know about it... I'll give you some real life examples of what people do to kids, usually their own kids. I'll avoid being too graphic on a public message board or repeatedly go over the same point, but these are a couple of people who I have actually worked with PERSONALLY.

A six year old who was repeatedly beaten & neglected by his mother. The occasion when this poor kid's plight was brought to the attention of Social Services was because she had a new boyfriend who didn't like kids. She went away to Blackpool for the weekend and didn't want him cramping their style so left him with a pile of jam sandwiches in a locked room. She didn't think to leave him drink, so when the authorities broke in, alerted by a neighbour who could hear him crying, they found him licking the damp off the walls. They also found the pool cue that she beat him with.

Or what about the teenager who used to take drugs and self mutilate. We (staff) all *knew* that she had been sexually abused, all our instincts told us but there wasn't a disclosure until she'd been with us for a long time. Eventually she only disclosed because she'd been protecting her younger sister and because she was with us, she couldn't be the protector. Turned out that her mother and the mother's friend used to go out together and pick blokes up, then bring them back. they'd then encourage the blokes to have sex with the teen. When these two paedophiles went out together, she would get absolutely hammered on drink & drugs so that she was practically unconscious by the time they returned home. So you are right, she had a "choice", she could "choose" to be awake and aware while she was raped by her mother, mother's friend and whatever drunks they'd convinced to join in, or she could "choose" to be as far out of it as possible. And society can "choose" to pretend that none of this really happens and that they aren't 'people', they are just 'druggies' who get what they deserve and are beyond help.

These aren't 'one-offs', these just happened to be two people I recalled clearly from working in child & adolescent services. Sadly, I could mention many, many more.

[bigreddog]

I'm with Sgt Major on this one.

Let's face it, it's a pretty fundamental point:

Needle exchange clinics create addicts; Sexual health clinics lead to promiscuity; hospitals cause all illness; pubs cause alcoholism. Let’s close the bloody lot down, especially the pubs.

But let's be serious for a second. The link is being made between this place and crime, so lets look at the figures (from the british crime survey (not home office figures))

21% of Muggings, 45% of all violent crime, 46% of domestic violence, 75% of stabbings, 60% of murders/manslaughters and 54% of violence from strangers has a direct link to Alcohol.

Drugs can be tracked to 27% of violent crime, 20% of stranger violence and 12% of domestic violence.

so what about comparing directly? well alcohol is linked to 35% of criminal damage and 1% is attributed to drugs. Vehicle thefts have a direct link to alcohol on 21% of the time compared to 1% to drugs.

Is the old tory club the perfect place to put this facility? probably not. Is it being there going to cause social decay, crime and violence? probably not. Do we need to stop supermarkets and other licenced premises from selling alcohol at less than cost price and to underage people? absolutely. should we insist that all pubs are members of pub watch? I think so.

I hope we never find out where the local gamblers and alcoholics anonymous meetings take place or we might see another flurry of petitions. In th meantime, local people have the right to protest about any issue they see fit, but people who are battling with very real problems also have the right to seek help to get better.

[marky No.1]

From those statistics I would take it that anyone taking drugs while having a beer is very likely to commit violent crime

[bigreddog]

Both at the same time (yes somebody made the distinction) accounts for about 10%.

while we're on the "It's political correctness gone mad!" bit have a gander at these:


http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?hl=en&q=political%20correctness%20comedy&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#q=stewart+lee+political+correctness&hl=en&emb=0