O/T - Leaving School this summer?......

[durhamshrimp]

Seems this is another debate started by someone looking at the past through rose tinted specs. For those of us living in the real world I'd much rather be leaving school with the choices available in 2009 than in say, 1985.

[Plain Peter]

Nowt wrong with choice.

But the country is full of young people, who have practically given up, and will never find a useful purpose in life.
Their lives have effectively ended before they've begun.

Look at many of theteenage single mums.
Their idea of employment is to get pregnant, which gives them a right to a roof over their head.
Benefits of all sorts follow.
Many consider getting their cheques as their wages.
If it wasn't for benefits coming across the counter then places like McDonalds and Burger King would struggle.

[Keith]

A Cook, for example, would have to give a Return of Service of perhaps 18 months from completion of 6 months training, whereas a Mechanical Engineering Apprentice would have to give at least 5 years from completion of his 3 years training.

There you go... sign up as a cook now, then stand as an MP at the next General Election. Queens Regs mean you have to be immediately released. You've just about got time to get in, trained and then 'jump ship' just in time to lose at the next election*. And if you win, well, no worries there either!

*I don't think you can be recalled if unsuccessful

[SirFredGoodwin]

Come on Peter, great response from DS, he got you good there boy!

How much are you paying to visit China Keith?
I've done it all for nowt, and most of South East Asia, and Oz, and NZ, and North America, and the best of the Mediterranean coast, and much of the Middle East.
And got a nice pension out of it, £900 clear a month just about pays for mine and Doris' annual jaunts.
Enjoy the eclipse, and the tidal bore.
We'll enjoy the Tiger and sunsets in Kota Kinabalu, 4 days to go

Anyone know a good B&B in Burton? We'll be there

Are you taking the piss, you bloody pauper!
I've spent that in an afternoon on the 19th hole,
If your leaving school soon, don't!
Go to University and study economics,banking,international business etc,
You'll make a lot more than some bloody deck hand

[Joel Ninety]

http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Be-An-Apprentice/Qualifications.aspx

5 GCSEs at grade G can get you onto an apprenticeship.

I didn't know grade G even existed. If anyone settles for "achieving" that level then that is disgusting.

[Plain Peter]

A Cook, for example, would have to give a Return of Service of perhaps 18 months from completion of 6 months training, whereas a Mechanical Engineering Apprentice would have to give at least 5 years from completion of his 3 years training.

There you go... sign up as a cook now, then stand as an MP at the next General Election. Queens Regs mean you have to be immediately released. You've just about got time to get in, trained and then 'jump ship' just in time to lose at the next election*. And if you win, well, no worries there either!

*I don't think you can be recalled if unsuccessful

Wrong.
Standing as an MP is a non-starter in the Armed Forces.
You would have to leave, having first given and served the minimum notice in your particular circumstances, which would/could include a return of service commitment.

[The Marksman]

Look at many of the teenage single mums.
Their idea of employment is to get pregnant, which gives them a right to a roof over their head.
Benefits of all sorts follow.
Many consider getting their cheques as their wages.

Well, that's just one more reason why people might not consider the armed forces. Laze around doing nothing and get paid or go and get shot at and get paid? Out of those two choices, I know which I'd rather do.*

*although I actually chose uni and a technical profession and haven't regretted it.

[feelingguilty]

This is a nonsense arguement.

I agree that the armed forces do provide a good opportunity for kids where there may be no other - but to see it as a cushy option is crazy. Look at now, suspect the kids in Afghanistan at moment are not finding it a cushy career choice.

Dont want to turn this political and before this is misinterpreted anyone in the armed forces is a hero in my book (not sure i would have the bottle) and putting this down as a cushy career choice is a massive oversimplification and really patronising to some true heroes.

[shrimper]

Having not known anyone closely (sons of friends or nephews etc) go into the forces for several years, I've spoken to about half a dozen - either lads themselves, or their parents - over the past two months who are joining up.

None of them (especially the parents) see it as an easy option - nor one, frankly, they'd necessarily thought they'd choose.

But the lads are looking at it, in today's job market, as a way to earn a reasonable wage doing something that gives them purpose.

One or two have told me they've seen themselves skirting with trouble in one way or another as teenagers and are taking the personal responsibility for making sure they don't drift into a life of constant low-esteem or, worse, petty crime.

[Abbo]

My son went straight into the army straight from school, served 6 years and went to Iraq etc, he came out a couple of years ago but is going back in in the next couple of months because he can earn a lot more money and get a very good pension but he is more disalutioned with what he's seen since he came out.
Personally iv had 4 jobs since i left school and have been in the same employment for the past 30 years and it really annoys me that certain people have no intention of even looking for a job when they leave school cos they know they will get hand outs and would rather mug people or break into houses, bring back national service and get these ....holes of the streets.

[Keith]

to be fair, I read the 'sit around doing nothing and get paid' comment as refering to the unemployed, not servicemen. Could be me though...

The standing as an MP was mentioned on Radio 4 this week as being "the quickest way out of the armed forces is to stand as an MP because queens regs mean you have to immediately be released".

bring back national service and get these ....holes of the streets.

I'm damn glad they don't have National Service. It's bad enough that people who volunteer to join up are being sent to die in an illegal war started by an immoral Prime Minister lapping up to a Christian fundamentalist President, without sending conscripts out there to die for their oil!

[Plain Peter]

The standing as an MP was mentioned on Radio 4 this week as being "the quickest way out of the armed forces is to stand as an MP because queens regs mean you have to immediately be released".

Keith - have a look at The House of Commons Disqualification Act

[Gnasher]

have a look at The House of Commons Disqualification Act

where it says

you are disqualified for membership of the House of Commons who for the time being—.
(c)is a member of any of the regular armed forces of the Crown or the Ulster Defence Regiment;

That act says you can't be both, isn't that what Keith is trying to get across? That to be an MP, you have to leave the armed forces?

[Plain Peter]

That act says you can't be both, isn't that what Keith is trying to get across? That to be an MP, you have to leave the armed forces?

It's easy then.
You get up one morning feeling well hacked-off with this Army lark, and think "I'll stand to be an MP. All I have to do is google up on it, fill in the application form, and I'll be in civvy street in a month."
I'd be interested to know how many disillusioned servicemen have been successful in working their ticket to stand for Parliament.
I suspect none.

Anyway, I've just logged-on and this was on my home page.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-documentid=148147983

Bleak isn't it?

[Keith]

It's easy then.
You get up one morning feeling well hacked-off with this Army lark, and think "I'll stand to be an MP. All I have to do is google up on it, fill in the application form, and I'll be in civvy street in a month."
I'd be interested to know how many disillusioned servicemen have been successful in working their ticket to stand for Parliament.
I suspect none.

I'm kind of guessing this only works when there is a General Election to stand in? Potentially an occasional by-election, so there are limited occasions to do this. Plus people in the armed forces have to know about it and want to stand somewhere, and pay £500 and get the required number of nominations etc, so I don't expect the numbers to be great either!

[shrimper]

Now you're all losing me. Are you suggesting national service for MPs? There must be a reality TV show in there somewhere.

[Abbo]

The thing is this country is such an easy touch for lazy gets that cant be arsed to get out of bed and go to work, an easy touch for imigrants to come to this country and be given housing and benefits, iv worked all my life since leaving school 40 years ago, never claimed any kind of benefits, payed my taxes etc etc and it really annoys me knowing that my tax is paying towards these 'people'

[marky]

It annoys me that some of the tax I've paid thus far goes towards treatment for smoking-related and obesity-related illnesses but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen!

[Abbo]

I have no time for people that are able but wont help themselfs, and bleed the health service.

[Curly]

The thing is this country is such an easy touch for lazy gets that cant be arsed to get out of bed and go to work, an easy touch for imigrants to come to this country and be given housing and benefits, iv worked all my life since leaving school 40 years ago, never claimed any kind of benefits, payed my taxes etc etc and it really annoys me knowing that my tax is paying towards these 'people'

Not actually as easy as you think, although there seems to be no reward for people who
immigrate to our country legitamately.
The people who get the most help are illegals and those who immigrate legitamately have
barrier after barrier put in front of them with endless amounts of red tape and stealth taxes
at each hurdle, its not as easy as most "Sun" readers think.
Plenty of people who come and work here bring skills we don't have. They pay tax and N.I.
yet when they need something we take for granted, they have mountains of paperwork to complete, pay charges we don't, can't have certain things like specific bank accounts and
rights we take for granted, even if they have "leave to remain" in the U.K, if they leave for
over a couple of months, they have to go back to the beginning and reapply again.
When you do apply to live in the U.K, by applying for a residency visa, your application is looked at thoroughly and you will have to pay up to £500 with no guarantee that you can reside and if your application fails, the government keep the money.
You can't get an N.I. card without a job first, which puts off a lot of employers, as you don't
have a N.I. number. You have to hope you get the job first, then the number, then back pay
any contributions you owe.
On the other hand, you can enter the country as a tourist then destroy your passport,
if immigration catch up with you ( difficult as you change address every 3 months and avoid
paying council tax too) the worst they can do is record some alleged details then release
you and hope they can find you again (difficult as your working cash in hand and changing
address every 3 months) after avoiding the authorities for long enough you eventually plead
that you've lived here so long (tax free) that you couldn't possibly return abroad as you couldn't leave all the children you've fathered ( U.K Citizens) and you couldn't readjust to
life back there anyway, you get leave to remain by clemancy and stay here forever on benefits.
Well done U.K Gov, you've proved its better to cheat than be legitamate, ironically like
so many of your commons members! Duck island anyone?

[Abbo]

And do you have a problem with this ??????? unfortunatly our country has become a dumping ground

[Curly]

Obviously! To clarify, I don't have a problem with people who play by the rules, although the rules could do with looking at, I do have a problem paying for illegals, as so far as they don't contribute and everyone else does.

[Keith]

There was an immigration story on Newsnight a couple of years ago. A surgeon who was an immigrant held in a camp, unable to work. The local hospital had been trying, unsuccessfully, for many months to recruit someone of his calibre. He was allowed out of the camp occasionally to 'give advice'...

How stupid, someone highly skilled who wants to work, not being allowed to. Someone the UK NEEDS, being held in a detention camp? How barking mad is that? Most people who come to the UK do so because they want to work and to better themselves.