Next manager ...

[Keith]

I don’t think you can blame Ged for leaving for a 3yr contract and with Morecambe’s horrendous problems, No more than the King leaving, twice(be damed!), for more money.

I hope the Berlin Waller was just as critical when DA left, (and I empathise) twice.

No, Berlin Wailer doesn't work like that. Derek can do no wrong. Everyone else can do no right.

That said, he does appear to have slightly come around to the realisation that the club is in a mess.

[Wild Bill]

At the moment I can only see us promoting from within. Drummy possibly the best bet. He will know the academy and at least experienced at L2. Only other option may be a Rooney type manager. Either failed elsewhere or unproven in management but willing to work for next to nothing just to build up their CV.

[Zip It Shrimpy]

At the moment I can only see us promoting from within. Drummy possibly the best bet. He will know the academy and at least experienced at L2. Only other option may be a Rooney type manager. Either failed elsewhere or unproven in management but willing to work for next to nothing just to build up their CV.

I think you're right WB.

Unless Jason agrees to support the playing budget again this season and because season ticket sales are way down on last year, we're looking at signing a very small squad plus academy players and loanees whose parent club agree to pay their wages.

As I understand it John Coleman likes a very big squad so he's out of the running, I suspect.

[Seasider9601]

At the moment I can only see us promoting from within. Drummy possibly the best bet. He will know the academy and at least experienced at L2.

With both Barry Roche and Neil Wainwright at his side (assuming both will still be around)

[Gone_Shrimping]

Jimmy Bell now appointed as full time manager at Clitheroe for the 2024/2025 season so that means if Coleman takes a job he won't have his assistant of many years with him.

[Little Shrimp]

Hard to envisage any manager coming in when we've got an embargo and no budget. These need resolving first before we go anywhere.

Given our situation, a bit of aura/experience probably wouldn't go amiss, but unless Coleman feels he has a point to prove to Andy Holt, I can't see him taking up the role here. Worth saying that Coleman without Bell is probably better - it was Bell after all who pulled that ridiculous stunt going on the radio to moan about not being offered a last autumn.

We've managed to get good people in at the club in key positions over the past few years. Jason is the main reason we haven't been able to keep them. Still struggle to see his logic in all this. He's continually allowed the value of the club to depreciate while he struggles to fund it - as a few have said, there's a good chance he's in serious debt and needs x amount of millions to get out. There's now a very strong chance that we go into administration over the next few weeks and he gets nothing.

[Billy bodger]

With the embargo and the funding issue of JW I agree it’s hard to move forward. How can Morecambe FC attract a manager or players or a new Chief Executive?

So I suggest to the BOD’s (if you still read this), do the following as a matter of urgency.

Firstly with no announcement that the Club have been given back the wrongly paid VAT, I suggest with the length of time this issue has been going on the Club now take this matter as theft and take appropriate action to get that money back. Maybe an official letter will help speed up the money being paid back to the Club and the embargo lifted A.S.A.P.

Secondly it is just as important to get an agreement in place with JW as soon as possible. If he doesn’t give any assurances around continued funding of the Club, or the actual size of a budget, the Club must assess what that means to the future of the Club.

Lastly, when that assessment is complete it is imperative the fans are left in no doubt what that means, at the moment fans, in the main, are putting faith that the BOD’s can overcome the problems Morecambe FC and we are still a League Two side with workable budget, a new Manager and a Playing Squad (whatever it will be like).

All this needs doing within a very short time frame because of the damage the continued problems of the Club will only make things worse and more difficult to sort out.

Oh and good luck with all of that!

[KenH]

Still struggle to see his logic in all this. He's continually allowed the value of the club to depreciate while he struggles to fund it - as a few have said, there's a good chance he's in serious debt and needs x amount of millions to get out. There's now a very strong chance that we go into administration over the next few weeks and he gets nothing.

It's classic gambling addict behaviour. You get so sucked in that you become blinkered to "winning" the next game and nothing else matters as you've got yourself in such a bad position that you're desperate. Common sense goes out of the window. If Jason is really is in such dire straits as suggested with tax debts etc and facing personal bankruptcy, he won't be rational and will be hoping for "one last roll of the dice" that someone will come in last minute with a big offer that will clear his debts and set him up for life. If things are that bad, he's nothing to lose, especially if the alleged offers are so low that they won't even clear his debts.

To some extent "some" board members and fans have a similar mindset, thinking that the only solution to the club's future is some multi millionaire who will not only pump millions into buying it and developing it but also finance the losses every year. Deluded really! There "may" be multi millionaires out there who could do it (what we see with a minority of other clubs with rich benefactors), but the reality is that we're more likely to get yet another chancer with no money of their own and the whole circus will just continue. It's what we see with people thinking that Tyson is going to buy the club - why would he?? Why would Hollywood stars buy Morecambe? We (club and Board) would be far better working on ways to make the club sustainable by increasing existing revenue streams, building new revenue streams, etc., rather than forever hoping that a billionaire will come along and use Morecambe as a play thing. If the club didn't lose a million pounds per year, it would be more attractive to buyers!!

[KenH]

Firstly with no announcement that the Club have been given back the wrongly paid VAT, I suggest with the length of time this issue has been going on the Club now take this matter as theft and take appropriate action to get that money back. Maybe an official letter will help speed up the money being paid back to the Club and the embargo lifted A.S.A.P.

What I can't understand is why the club havn't used ST renewal income to pay the wages and/or the VAT bill. Even if only 1,000 season tickets sold, that's going to be £200k (assuming average between standing/seated/young/old etc). Surely that's enough to pay the VAT bill, or is the VAT bill even higher?? Likewise the April wages bill? Or has the ST renewal money already been used and the club was still short of the amounts needed for VAT and/or April wages??

Or is there a bit of "brinkmanship" going on like last year when all players being released caused Jason to provide a budget. Perhaps the Board are just forcing Jason's hand to try to push him into selling.

As for getting money back from the supplier, that's a matter of commercial law, i.e. proper procedure for claiming a debt, i.e. letters before action, instigation of court proceedings, etc. - all takes time as any business who's had money owed to it will know

[black morse]

With the embargo and the funding issue of JW I agree it’s hard to move forward. How can Morecambe FC attract a manager or players or a new Chief Executive?

So I suggest to the BOD’s (if you still read this), do the following as a matter of urgency.

Firstly with no announcement that the Club have been given back the wrongly paid VAT, I suggest with the length of time this issue has been going on the Club now take this matter as theft and take appropriate action to get that money back. Maybe an official letter will help speed up the money being paid back to the Club and the embargo lifted A.S.A.P.

Secondly it is just as important to get an agreement in place with JW as soon as possible. If he doesn’t give any assurances around continued funding of the Club, or the actual size of a budget, the Club must assess what that means to the future of the Club.

Lastly, when that assessment is complete it is imperative the fans are left in no doubt what that means, at the moment fans, in the main, are putting faith that the BOD’s can overcome the problems Morecambe FC and we are still a League Two side with workable budget, a new Manager and a Playing Squad (whatever it will be like).

All this needs doing within a very short time frame because of the damage the continued problems of the Club will only make things worse and more difficult to sort out.

Oh and good luck with all of that!

Whittingham's word is useless. Way back in season 22/23 Derek was complaining that promises to him had been broken and it seems to have been that way ever since. So far as the non returned VAT money is concerned I expect the Board have already arranged for an 'official letter' and threatened legal action. Just hope it is not a case of the 'supplier' not having the wherewithal to pay the VAT money back. If that's the case it could take months to sort out and we haven't got that sort of time.

[Gone_Shrimping]

With the embargo and the funding issue of JW I agree it’s hard to move forward. How can Morecambe FC attract a manager or players or a new Chief Executive?

So I suggest to the BOD’s (if you still read this), do the following as a matter of urgency.

Firstly with no announcement that the Club have been given back the wrongly paid VAT, I suggest with the length of time this issue has been going on the Club now take this matter as theft and take appropriate action to get that money back. Maybe an official letter will help speed up the money being paid back to the Club and the embargo lifted A.S.A.P.

Secondly it is just as important to get an agreement in place with JW as soon as possible. If he doesn’t give any assurances around continued funding of the Club, or the actual size of a budget, the Club must assess what that means to the future of the Club.

Lastly, when that assessment is complete it is imperative the fans are left in no doubt what that means, at the moment fans, in the main, are putting faith that the BOD’s can overcome the problems Morecambe FC and we are still a League Two side with workable budget, a new Manager and a Playing Squad (whatever it will be like).

All this needs doing within a very short time frame because of the damage the continued problems of the Club will only make things worse and more difficult to sort out.

Oh and good luck with all of that!

Whittingham's word is useless. Way back in season 22/23 Derek was complaining that promises to him had been broken and it seems to have been that way ever since. So far as the non returned VAT money is concerned I expect the Board have already arranged for an 'official letter' and threatened legal action. Just hope it is not a case of the 'supplier' not having the wherewithal to pay the VAT money back. If that's the case it could take months to sort out and we haven't got that sort of time.

Bearing in mind that V.A.T. is 20% of an invoice what on earth was the invoice for the the V.A.T. could cause such financial paralysis !

[KenH]

Just hope it is not a case of the 'supplier' not having the wherewithal to pay the VAT money back. If that's the case it could take months to sort out and we haven't got that sort of time.

What worries me is that if this "supplier" wrongly charged VAT to MFC and now owes the money back, but clearly can't afford to, is MFC the only customer, or have they got the VAT wrong with all their other customers too? If so, they may owed huge amounts to lots of different businesses, and could really be close to administration/receivership themselves, in which case MFC may end up never receiving the money back, but still liable to HMRC for the VAT monies wrongly claimed. It could be even worse than we think!

[KenH]

Bearing in mind that V.A.T. is 20% of an invoice what on earth was the invoice for the the V.A.T. could cause such financial paralysis !

It's one of the "biggies", merchandise (club shop) or outsourced payroll and is indeed huge!

[Zip It Shrimpy]

Hard to envisage any manager coming in when we've got an embargo and no budget. These need resolving first before we go anywhere.

The embargo is to stop an increase in the number or cost of players. As players contracts expire at the end of this month the embargo becomes irrelevant, assuming it's not rescinded.

Any incoming manager will have a budget agreed before signing. It'll probably be less than the season just ended.

[KenH]

Any incoming manager will have a budget agreed before signing. It'll probably be less than the season just ended.

That depends on Jason agreeing a budget, and more importantly, agreeing to put money in to finance the budget.

I think it's inevitable that it will be a lower budget than last season given the clear reduction in fans attending the games as evident over the past few months, and from the massive fall in season ticket sales for the forthcoming season.

We're back on a downward spiral unfortunately. Basically just thrown away the higher attendances, excitement, etc. arising from the promotion and more importantly the losses last season wiped out the profit of the season before.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Bearing in mind that V.A.T. is 20% of an invoice what on earth was the invoice for the the V.A.T. could cause such financial paralysis !

It's one of the "biggies", merchandise (club shop) or outsourced payroll and is indeed huge!

The 2023 accounts show the shop turnover as £166k so hard to think of a merchandise invoice that could have so much V.A.T. that it caused an embargo.

[vvm]

Trying to think what else we'd use a supplier for.

Hospitality generated a £977,000 turnover in 2023 so a supplier for this? Beer or food supplier maybe?

[KenH]

Trying to think what else we'd use a supplier for.

Hospitality generated a £977,000 turnover in 2023 so a supplier for this? Beer or food supplier maybe?

Unlikely as "normal" invoices like that wouldn't usually cause any problems - it's pretty straightforward and very little scope for the supplier getting the invoicing of VAT wrong.

Far more likely to be something strange/unusual that the club didn't spot.

Such as the new partnership agreement with the merchandise supplier, i.e. maybe something like getting the VAT position on the agreement wrong, especially if it's a kind of "agency" agreement where they could be doubt as to who was the principal which is fundamental in agency agreements. I.e. whether it's the club responsible for output VAT on the full sales value or only the output VAT on the profit element - maybe only declaring output VAT on profit but still claiming input VAT on full purchases. I've certainly seen that before!

It may also not just be one invoice. It could go back a year or two, or even more, if it's something else. VAT assessments are usually for a number of years.

Shame the BOD gave such a garbled "explanation" that caused more doubt rather than clearing it up.

[marky No.1]

The plot of land the Club purchased?

Not usually subject to VAT

[Keith]

Unlikely as "normal" invoices like that wouldn't usually cause any problems - it's pretty straightforward and very little scope for the supplier getting the invoicing of VAT wrong...

...Far more likely to be something strange/unusual that the club didn't spot.

Could it (and this is entirely guessing) be that Whittingham has other companies involved in this, and it was an inter-company payment of some sort? I know he had multiple companies involved in Worcester Warriors. In which case, if we've paid too much, and he's skint, we ain't getting it back in a hurry.

Shame the BOD gave such a garbled "explanation" that caused more doubt rather than clearing it up.

Absolutely. The mess we're in, why not come clean, and bring what's going on out into the open? It can't cause any additional damage.

If I was a person wealthy enough to consider buying Morecambe FC, right now, I'd be watching and waiting. Why give £2.5 million (for example) to Whittingham when an Administrator will accept £800,000 (or whatever) in a month's time? If Whittingham was serious about selling, he'd have been gone a long time ago. Why he didn't sell, who knows? But now, his asset, and our football club is going down the pan.

[fulwoodshrimp]

The longer the secrecy goes on about the vat fiasco the more problematic it becomes. The gobbledegook explanation of the debt and the silence from the board suggest we are on the brink of disaster. Again, the question needs to be asked "how much do we owe HMRC" and could fans and directors not manage to cover the vat in order to cancel the embargo? The question is answered by " it's more than you would find down the back of the sofa". That is a meaningless response and gives no indication of the scale of the vat debt. We need an answer if we are going to help our club.

[Billy bodger]

My earlier post with 3 suggestions may never happen, but I thought it was a rational plan to move forward. To get a manager and players in place for next seasons opening round of fixtures. It relies on people working towards one goal, together and it is clear this is not happening.

So from the answers that have been given it seems that the Embargo will not be sorted anytime soon. So the EMBARGO problem that affects Morecambe FC, will just hold everything up.

This is disconcerting as what JW does or doesn’t do will become the factor that will ultimately decide the future path of the Club.

How bad a position are JW’s other businesses? The way he runs them all will ultimately be the factor that will decide our future.

Do people with multiple businesses end up sacrificing one business to save another? (Worcester Warriors debacle!!), so his other businesses can survive without going into liquidation or administrative or can he keep them all going in the vain hope a big buyer for the Club is found?

With late payments of wages for a second time, is Morecambe FC on the top of his priorities list? It certainly does not look that way.

As I said the BOD’s have a massive job to do and big big decisions to make and I don’t envy them one bit.

For all the fans that have bought S/Ts I hope they make the right call.

[redrobo]

Just got back from week in Bristol to find out that Ged as predicted has jumped ship.

And so the hunt for anew manager begins BUT how can a newmanager be appointed IF when they ask the obvious question WHAT IS THE PLAYING BUDGET??

Unless Jason dips his toe into the water once again that is a question that I doubt the BoDs can answer so until that issue is sorted our club and the question of anew manager is irrelevant.

Some have suggested Drummy with Baz and Neil W as a possible answer. I would not rule it out but curre tfans favourite would see a return of JC.

For me for what it is worth maybe a non league manager looking for the next step up.Possibly the manager at Altrincham

[Zip It Shrimpy]

Unless Jason dips his toe into the water once again that is a question that I doubt the BoDs can answer so until that issue is sorted our club and the question of anew manager is irrelevant.

The Directors will set the playing budget with the help of revenue forecasts from the Finance Manager / Director. Its the way it's always done.

It's up to the new manager or BoD to ask Jason to pledge further money to support the budget, basically asking him to cover losses up to a predicted amount.

Possibly the manager at Altrincham

Or Kendal Town?

[Redalert1970]

Why would the manager of Altrincham leave to come to us right now unless he got guarantees