Embargo

[shrimpsontoast]

“To try to put it in simple terms, we have to pay for something where we have done nothing wrong before we are refunded, so essentially, paying for something twice.”

Clear as mud that! Suppose the real big question is “how much are they saying we owe them?”

[fulwoodshrimp]

Surely we fans are due a proper explanation of what is going on with the EFL and HMRC? The only explanation at the moment is a riddle and I think we are due to be treated as grown ups. We have been promised honesty and openness but that doesn't seem to be happening. Who do we owe money to- presumably HMRC? What is this money owing for? How much is owing? What are the club doing about it? What are the implications for signing players ?If we are to survive and move forward we need complete honesty from the board. We fans are in this with the board and if we are to survive we need to know precisely what is going on.

[Billy bodger]

If we buy the early bird season ticket and this isn’t sorted out, by the way it’s been explained by the Club, EFL and H.M.R.C, am I right in thinking we will not have a team for next year, because of the embargo!!! So it begs the question will we get a refund?

The Club need to explain to fans what’s happening before they pay their hard earned money for the new season ticket.

We need to know how the Club are going to resolve this?

More over WHAT IS THE OWNER GOING TO DO?

For goodness sake man sell the Club.

[Gone_Shrimping]

If it is a small amount that the club are going to receive back then I can't believe they have let it get to the point where we have all the publicity associated with an embargo and the impact of that on season ticket sales and persuading players to sign new contracts or sign new players.

[Wild Bill]

No idea what's going on here but there's a serious question mark now over fans renewing their season tickets. I think the Trust should consider collating names of those willing to buy but have concerns about the stability and ownership of the club. This then gives us some leverage over the sale or at least a right for more transparency.

[shrimpsontoast]

Don’t know how VAT works exactly, but it’s an end user tax isn’t it? If a service or product has been provided to the club the club may have been charged VAT on that? If the club then uses that product or service to provide a service or product to its own customers, it then in turn has to charge VAT on that product or service and remit it to HMRC? But it would be entitled to claim a refund from HMRC on the VAT paid in respect of the service that was provided to the club? But that means there is a period where HMRC is effectively in debt to the club (what Graham might mean when he refers to paying twice), which is a bit inconvenient if you have cash flow issues?

Sell to who, Billy? (obviously “anyone” is not the correct answer)

[Gone_Shrimping]

Don’t know how VAT works exactly, but it’s an end user tax isn’t it? If a service or product has been provided to the club the club may have been charged VAT on that? If the club then uses that product or service to provide a service or product to its own customers, it then in turn has to charge VAT on that product or service and remit it to HMRC? But it would be entitled to claim a refund from HMRC on the VAT paid in respect of the service that was provided to the club? But that means there is a period where HMRC is effectively in debt to the club (what Graham might mean when he refers to paying twice), which is a bit inconvenient if you have cash flow issues?

Sell to who, Billy? (obviously “anyone” is not the correct answer)

It is a crazy Tax that was obligatory on all Countries that were in the European Economic Community (Common Market) now known as the European Union. The UK joined the EEC on 1st January 1973 and V.A.T. was introduced here on 1st April 1973. Before that date the UK used Purchase Tax etc

Now we have left the EU in theory we could abolish V.A.T. but the Treasury loves to milk the public and they don't have to do much in the way of administration or checks other than looking for fraud. There used to be a local V.A.T. Office but that closed many years ago along with most other towns. If V.A.T. was abolished then it would have to be replaced with another Tax and that might be even worse !

[KenH]

Don’t know how VAT works exactly, but it’s an end user tax isn’t it? If a service or product has been provided to the club the club may have been charged VAT on that? If the club then uses that product or service to provide a service or product to its own customers, it then in turn has to charge VAT on that product or service and remit it to HMRC? But it would be entitled to claim a refund from HMRC on the VAT paid in respect of the service that was provided to the club? But that means there is a period where HMRC is effectively in debt to the club (what Graham might mean when he refers to paying twice), which is a bit inconvenient if you have cash flow issues?

Sell to who, Billy? (obviously “anyone” is not the correct answer)

It is a crazy Tax that was obligatory on all Countries that were in the European Economic Community (Common Market) now known as the European Union. The UK joined the EEC on 1st January 1973 and V.A.T. was introduced here on 1st April 1973. Before that date the UK used Purchase Tax etc

Now we have left the EU in theory we could abolish V.A.T. but the Treasury loves to milk the public and they don't have to do much in the way of administration or checks other than looking for fraud. There used to be a local V.A.T. Office but that closed many years ago along with most other towns. If V.A.T. was abolished then it would have to be replaced with another Tax and that might be even worse !

Ironically, transactions between VAT registered businesses between the UK and EU didn't have VAT charged on them so made the whole process so much simpler.

In the UK we have a stupid system where company A has to charge VAT to company B, but company B then reclaims it from HMRC. So lots of wasted time, cash flow problems, etc for absolutely no reason at all.

VAT is an end-user tax, so in theory transactions between businesses should be zero rated or exempt, with only the last firm in the chain dealing with domestic customers actually dealing with VAT!

(Of course, not quite so simple as some businesses can't reclaim VAT charged to them, but there'd be ways around that, i.e. only zero rated or exempt for transactions between standard rated businesses!)

[redrobo]

I'd like to think that we are making a mountain out of a molehill with regards to this embargo.

Let's trust the powers that be ( possibly those external to the club) to resolve any issues that they deem necessary to place this embargo on our club.

By the sounds of it and the way that some more in tune with VAT have explained the workings of HMRC then we as fans need not get hot under the collar and wait for everything to return to normal in due course.

[black morse]

I'd like to think that we are making a mountain out of a molehill with regards to this embargo.

Let's trust the powers that be ( possibly those external to the club) to resolve any issues that they deem necessary to place this embargo on our club.

By the sounds of it and the way that some more in tune with VAT have explained the workings of HMRC then we as fans need not get hot under the collar and wait for everything to return to normal in due course.

Which is all very well RR except for the embargo that we are now under!

[redrobo]

I'd like to think that we are making a mountain out of a molehill with regards to this embargo.

Let's trust the powers that be ( possibly those external to the club) to resolve any issues that they deem necessary to place this embargo on our club.

By the sounds of it and the way that some more in tune with VAT have explained the workings of HMRC then we as fans need not get hot under the collar and wait for everything to return to normal in due course.

Which is all very well RR except for the embargo that we are now under!

Read my original post again. I was referring to the CURRENT embargo 'making a mountain out of a molehill with regards to this embargo'.....

[KenH]

I'd like to think that we are making a mountain out of a molehill with regards to this embargo.

Let's trust the powers that be ( possibly those external to the club) to resolve any issues that they deem necessary to place this embargo on our club.

By the sounds of it and the way that some more in tune with VAT have explained the workings of HMRC then we as fans need not get hot under the collar and wait for everything to return to normal in due course.

We wouldn't be getting "hot under the collar" if the Board had made a proper statement that actually explained the situation in layman's language. Instead they were bounced into making a statement after (as usual) it became public, and the statement itself is hardly illuminating.

[redrobo]

Have to agree that Graham isn't the best at communicating and for me such statements should be left to our CEO who for me does the communication side of the club far better.

With regards to this current communique other than putting a figure on the monies involved I can't see what more could have been said other than a change to the person who informed us of this temporary problem.

[redrobo]

Following on from GB's comments on Radio Lancashire last night and the embargo affecting his forward planning. it's about time we the paying customers were informed of the current position and whether it is being sorted as a matter of urgency by the club and the other parties concerned or is it being left to run its course which if it is then any hopes of producing a decent team next season are diminishing day by day.

Hopefully the statement giving us the current situation will be issued by our General Manager and not the somewhat flippant statement issued recently by one of our Co Chairmen.

A statement of the actual facts about the conditions of the embargo are needed as a number of contradicting posts have put differing opinions on the subject.

Quite simply WE AS PAYING FANS need to know the true implications for OUR club.

[Billy bodger]

Following on from GB's comments on Radio Lancashire last night and the embargo affecting his forward planning. it's about time we the paying customers were informed of the current position and whether it is being sorted as a matter of urgency by the club and the other parties concerned or is it being left to run its course which if it is then any hopes of producing a decent team next season are diminishing day by day.

Hopefully the statement giving us the current situation will be issued by our General Manager and not the somewhat flippant statement issued recently by one of our Co Chairmen.

A statement of the actual facts about the conditions of the embargo are needed as a number of contradicting posts have put differing opinions on the subject.

Quite simply WE AS PAYING FANS need to know the true implications for OUR club.

Redrobbo you posted on 29th March we should let the powers that be sort out the problem and fans shouldn’t get hot under the collar.

Mmm! I read you post today and it seems you have now come round to saying what others have said since the announcement of the Embargo. I’m glad you have joined the chorus the calling for more openness between the BoD’s and the fans.

[Billy bodger]

The time now is exactly 16:42. What time will come up that I posted this 15.42?

[Keith]

The time now is exactly 16:42. What time will come up that I posted this 15.42?

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[redrobo]

Hopefully the embargo will be sorted in the next few days so that we can plan for next season.

I'm sure the majority of fans would welcome an update from Ben or a Co Chairman so that those wanting to purchase a Season Ticket can do so with confidence that we will have a competitive team for next season.

[Born again Bill]

Hopefully the embargo will be sorted in the next few days so that we can plan for next season.

I'm sure the majority of fans would welcome an update from Ben or a Co Chairman so that those wanting to purchase a Season Ticket can do so with confidence that we will have a competitive team for next season.

Don't hold your breath !

[redrobo]

Hopefully the embargo will be sorted in the next few days so that we can plan for next season.

I'm sure the majority of fans would welcome an update from Ben or a Co Chairman so that those wanting to purchase a Season Ticket can do so with confidence that we will have a competitive team for next season.

Don't hold your breath !

Been holding my breath for the last 18 months.....with all fingers and toes crossed...somehow think I may still be in same situation in months to come or until EFL punish club for continued non payment of fines etc by Jason that could see us relegated back to non league.....

IF Jason doesn't pay fine and other monies requested I suspect any further action by EFL will see our club penalized yet again for something totally out of our control....which could see us back in no league or no club at all.

[Billy bodger]

I have been of the idea for a bit that Jason doesn’t want to sell, that’s why his price is too high. I’m slowly coming round to start thinking he is up to something else!!

If he doesn’t pay the recent fine do the Club take another points hit? Would the league finally realise he is not a fit and proper person to own a football club and do the right thing by appointing administrators?
(unfortunately the bar set for ownership is very low, so probably not).

Would Jason prove me wrong and sell at a lower price? (Not looking likely).

Run the Club further down and declare himself bankrupt? (The club put in administration and assets sold off, new buyers sought and Jason after a period of time (a year?) relived of his debts).

Or just keep us as the owner and lend the Club money at high interest to make some spending money for himself.

After what happened at Worcester Warriors, surely he will not be fazed by what is happening at Morecambe FC or that he has to declare himself bankrupt.

As we cannot afford to buy anyone I don’t think the embargo affects us to much, except who would want to sign for us?

[Gone_Shrimping]

I have been of the idea for a bit that Jason doesn’t want to sell, that’s why his price is too high. I’m slowly coming round to start thinking he is up to something else!!

If he doesn’t pay the recent fine do the Club take another points hit? Would the league finally realise he is not a fit and proper person to own a football club and do the right thing by appointing administrators?
(unfortunately the bar set for ownership is very low, so probably not).

Would Jason prove me wrong and sell at a lower price? (Not looking likely).

Run the Club further down and declare himself bankrupt? (The club put in administration and assets sold off, new buyers sought and Jason after a period of time (a year?) relived of his debts).

Or just keep us as the owner and lend the Club money at high interest to make some spending money for himself.

After what happened at Worcester Warriors, surely he will not be fazed by what is happening at Morecambe FC or that he has to declare himself bankrupt.

As we cannot afford to buy anyone I don’t think the embargo affects us to much, except who would want to sign for us?

I have thought for a while that he wants to remain the owner and lend the club money at shark interest rates. If he thought Tyson Fury was interested he would immediately increase the price. If we had managed to go up again he would have held on for the club to go up in value.

Maybe the administration route is the one to go and get rid of him ? What would an administrator do with the assets ?

Do we know if the club has asked Tyson about his plans for the G3 pitches ? He reckons he wants to help the youth of the town and handing this land back or putting it in a trust would be a great gesture by him.

[redrobo]

Hopefully the embargo will be sorted in the next few days so that we can plan for next season.

I'm sure the majority of fans would welcome an update from Ben or a Co Chairman so that those wanting to purchase a Season Ticket can do so with confidence that we will have a competitive team for next season.

Silence is NOT golden......I suspect many fans are holding back on buying a season ticket until they hear from our usually excellent BoDs about the situation as it is at the moment.

Surely it doesn't take this amount of time to resolve a situation that has been reported as not being of a serious nature.....

[Billy bodger]

It could be lifted for all we get to know!!

[black morse]

It could be lifted for all we get to know!!

We'll no doubt hear something from Ged in his prematch interview. As for 'not being of a serious nature' we've heard that one before. If it is really not serious then the EFL should let us know before the end of the season.