OFF TOPIC - LOCAL POLITICS - You Have Been Warned!

[Gnasher]

David Whittaker knew what went on;

http://www.lakelandecho.co.uk/morecambe ... 5116180.jp

[bigreddog]

David Whittaker knew what went on;

http://www.lakelandecho.co.uk/morecambe ... 5116180.jp

David and I and a number of others have been arguing until we were blue in the face that it would cost people more. Even a rudamentary understanding of local government finance revealed that to be the case. The last thing people need is an extra level of government, extra politicians and extra tax. I could take my bat and ball home and not stand, but neither david nor I are willing to walk away, not now of all the times. I may not be able to abolish this thing on day one, but I'm not going to forget that the budget for it is your money and shouldn't be spent on pet projects just because it's there.

[bigreddog]

By the way, while I'm here, I'll shut up and listen for a while on this debate. But if Mike lives in the parish area, and I think he does because I seeing him walking near where I live from time to time, then I would be very happy to talk on his doorstep or elsewhere. just pm me. if you're not in the seat where I'm standing I can get another residents first person to come round. if it is me then very happy to.

you're right about the paper only having a list. I remember the days when the visitor and guardian would do profiles of all the candidates so you could see who they were and what their background was. much better IMO.

[Gnasher]

you're right about the paper only having a list. I remember the days when the visitor and guardian would do profiles of all the candidates so you could see who they were and what their background was. much better IMO.

I'm sure there will be plenty of bog paper coming through our doors over the next few weeks.

[clayton]

How can say the resident first is not political when
Jean Yates Janice Hanson, Martyn Jowett, Ian Joseph Pattison, are all standing in the county election under the banner of Labour
Margaret Pattison works part time for the Morecambe labour Mp
Terrie Metcalfe David Whitaker are ex councillors for labour
Susan Selway is daughter of a labour activist who has proposed several
David Needham is a labour activist his wife has proposed several previous labour candidates and their son had nominated Martyn Jowett
Darren Clifford who has stood in many elections for labour

[bigreddog]

Wouldn't it be novel if you MBI's would just say what you've got to say using your usual log in instead of having to invent a new one.

No one is saying that being interested in local politics isn't political. And it's fair to say that many on the ticket share similar values. you can hardly call David Needham ( a local businessman and director of Lancaster city FC) a labour activist though. I've never seen him knock on a door or deliver a leaflet for Labour in all the years I've known him. There is a political party locally that claims that it isn't one even though the electoral commission says they are, and we don't need three guesses to say who do we?

There are a number of people who I know to be members of political parties who have chosen to stand as independents at the parish election, one only has to look at Bare to see the slate of conservative members. But they have chosen to stand as individuals as have I and I respect that choice. for your information though, both the pattisons have decided not to stand because they wanted to stand as labour and we didn't feel it was appropriate.

In the end the people of morecambe will decide. I for one hope they look at the credentials of the individual candidates and what experience they can bring to bear on behalf of the community, not what party they may or may not support at national level, nor what they have to say about morecambe's past, but what they have to contribute towards its future.

[Jumping Jack Flash38]

Jumping Jack Flash will jump down anyones throat if he thinks your talking garbage. Thats all for the time being--I need to dash to work--some of us have to work to earn thier keep.

[Mark S]

I think it would be easy to get a clean sweep at these Gravy Train elections.

Form a party called The Abolish This Plastic, Parasitic, Money-Sucking Waste of Time, Gravy Train for Local Power Mad Egos Party get everyone elected and make the first action a motion to disband.

Now everyone has realised how we have been duped, its a sure fire winner.

[shrimper]

you're right about the paper only having a list. I remember the days when the visitor and guardian would do profiles of all the candidates so you could see who they were and what their background was. much better IMO.

You have a better memory than me, then, Darren (or you're getting confused).

I can never remember either paper doing that even for a CITY council election (60-odd seats, up to ten candidates per seat, it would take up most of the paper - we'd be out of business the week after!).

We've certainly never done it - in my memory - for a parish council one. Generally speaking most people aren't interested enough and, with space at a premium, it would deprive them of most of the other news that week. If they are concerned enough they will seek out the information they require and vote (or not) accordingly.

We have - and still do - include profiles for the candidates in the NATIONAL election to select our MP (which is far more manageable and - most would agree, of interest). Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

[Posh]

The root of the problem is that Morecambe should have its own proper Council and not a Parish Council.

You could do a graph showing the decline in Morecambe's prosperity etc from 1974 when Lancaster CC took us in.

Why the hell should Lancaster's Green Party Coucillors be allowed to veto or affect Morecambe planning decisions.

Well done. You've simply repeated the MBIs arguments that its all the fault of Lancaster. Of course it had nothing to do with landlords and hoteliers who turned away guests in their thousands when they were full of construction workers from the two power plants; nothing to do with the growth in overseas travel that saw millions going abroad instead of holidaying at home and a decline that affected every other seaside resort in the country; and nothing to do with well to put in bluntly the Morecambe moaners willing to blame everyone but themselves and get on with investing their own money and effort into initiatives that work instead of relying on governments of all kinds to do it for them.

Remember also that the biggest investment in Morecambe has come through parties and groups led by Lancaster politicians. The Labour Group from 1993-97 loaned Morecambe FC £200K to build the North Stand and loaned (subsequently written off because they couldn't repay it) the Winter Gardens £181K to make it waterproof. The Labour-Lib-Dem-Green coalition from 2001-2005 built Morecambe's first new toilets for over a half a century; built a splashpark at Happy Mount Park from the sale of land in Lancaster; got the funds to get the Midland refurbished; backed an M6 link so we got something delivered; and did so much more which benefited Morecambe.

In the intervening years 1997-2001 a council led by a Morecambe party made up of Morecambrians gave us ...errrr.... an ALDI on Morecambe promenade. They cancelled one festival; downloaded porn on to a council computer etc. etc.

And now they're one of the largest parties their ... errr... subsidising a white elephant called The Dome to allow people to watch second-rate entertainment for mainly local people by taking money from our children - playground maintenenance slashed; summer activities budgets slashed; leisure centres budgets slashed. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Even worse they now want to bail them out to the tune of hundreds of thousands on the Winter Gardens, because they've been so utterly useless at getting the Winter Gardens restored so far. Yet now someone else (national government) has provided a pot of money they can go for, they still think we've got to support a loss-making building. FFS come up with a business plan that works and not some imbecilic venture that will lead yet again to its closure.

Morecambe people wake up!

[Seasider9601]

And I've said this before and I'll say it again because it infuriates me !!

Why oh why oh why are the Winter Gardens lot PLEADING for money for restoration of the grand old building by whatever means they can do, but, yet again, I have driven past the place this weekend a fair few times and seen the place locked shut with no sign of life????

Again, plenty of people peering through the gates as well probably wishing they could have gone in for a look round (and maybe put a few quid into the bucket). Might be wrong (and if so, apologies) but I am sure the adjoining Gardens "shop / office" was closed too ..........

[Duffman]

Perhaps it's because I'm from a different generation but I don't understand why we're so desperate for the winter gardens to be renovated. Don't get me wrong it's got a tremendous history to it but surely once it's all done up it would just fail like the Dome across the road. I can't imagine it would attract top shows or acts and I find it hard to justify any expense on it.

[Posh]

Perhaps it's because I'm from a different generation but I don't understand why we're so desperate for the winter gardens to be renovated. Don't get me wrong it's got a tremendous history to it but surely once it's all done up it would just fail like the Dome across the road. I can't imagine it would attract top shows or acts and I find it hard to justify any expense on it.

I disagree in that I believe there is a role for a multi-purpose venue - entertainment of all types; a conference venue with different setups; possibly a museum; and a variety of other workable space. Yes there would be a need some public sector involvement. The council could close the Dome and The Platform, and move the TIC as they've done with The Storey in Lancaster. Some of the cost savings could transfer into The Winter Gardens. Take the Floral Pavillion in New Brighton http://www.floralpavilion.com/, which really shows what a multi-purpose venue can achieve.

However, I simply don't believe that the people in charge of the Winter Gardens project have the skills or capabilities to put together the kind of plan needed. I know first hand how they've rejected offers of help and assistance from skilled and knowledgeable people (from free fundraising to the free use of surveyors) in order to retain their tight closed shop. So far its been nothing short of a disaster. Britain's oldest jumble sale bailed out by politicians from Lancaster and the wills of a few old dears.

[Duffman]

Perhaps it's because I'm from a different generation but I don't understand why we're so desperate for the winter gardens to be renovated. Don't get me wrong it's got a tremendous history to it but surely once it's all done up it would just fail like the Dome across the road. I can't imagine it would attract top shows or acts and I find it hard to justify any expense on it.

I disagree in that I believe there is a role for a multi-purpose venue - entertainment of all types; a conference venue with different setups; possibly a museum; and a variety of other workable space. Yes there would be a need some public sector involvement. The council could close the Dome and The Platform, and move the TIC as they've done with The Storey in Lancaster. Some of the cost savings could transfer into The Winter Gardens. Take the Floral Pavillion in New Brighton http://www.floralpavilion.com/, which really shows what a multi-purpose venue can achieve.

However, I simply don't believe that the people in charge of the Winter Gardens project have the skills or capabilities to put together the kind of plan needed. I know first hand how they've rejected offers of help and assistance from skilled and knowledgeable people (from free fundraising to the free use of surveyors) in order to retain their tight closed shop. So far its been nothing short of a disaster. Britain's oldest jumble sale bailed out by politicians from Lancaster and the wills of a few old dears.

If it was ever to be completed I have this image in my head of the people in charge all giving themselves pats on the back saying well done, but then nothing happening with it. It'll just collect dust and be an expensive flop. If I believe/can be convinced that if it was renovated it would be an asset and something to be proud of then I'm sure, like 99% of people in the area, I'd get behind the idea. But being 22 I've grown up with the constant merry-go-round of the Winter Gardens.

[Heysham_Shrimp]

The root of the problem is that Morecambe should have its own proper Council and not a Parish Council.

You could do a graph showing the decline in Morecambe's prosperity etc from 1974 when Lancaster CC took us in.

Why the hell should Lancaster's Green Party Coucillors be allowed to veto or affect Morecambe planning decisions.

Well done. You've simply repeated the MBIs arguments that its all the fault of Lancaster. Of course it had nothing to do with landlords and hoteliers who turned away guests in their thousands when they were full of construction workers from the two power plants; nothing to do with the growth in overseas travel that saw millions going abroad instead of holidaying at home and a decline that affected every other seaside resort in the country; and nothing to do with well to put in bluntly the Morecambe moaners willing to blame everyone but themselves and get on with investing their own money and effort into initiatives that work instead of relying on governments of all kinds to do it for them.

Remember also that the biggest investment in Morecambe has come through parties and groups led by Lancaster politicians. The Labour Group from 1993-97 loaned Morecambe FC £200K to build the North Stand and loaned (subsequently written off because they couldn't repay it) the Winter Gardens £181K to make it waterproof. The Labour-Lib-Dem-Green coalition from 2001-2005 built Morecambe's first new toilets for over a half a century; built a splashpark at Happy Mount Park from the sale of land in Lancaster; got the funds to get the Midland refurbished; backed an M6 link so we got something delivered; and did so much more which benefited Morecambe.

In the intervening years 1997-2001 a council led by a Morecambe party made up of Morecambrians gave us ...errrr.... an ALDI on Morecambe promenade. They cancelled one festival; downloaded porn on to a council computer etc. etc.

And now they're one of the largest parties their ... errr... subsidising a white elephant called The Dome to allow people to watch second-rate entertainment for mainly local people by taking money from our children - playground maintenenance slashed; summer activities budgets slashed; leisure centres budgets slashed. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Even worse they now want to bail them out to the tune of hundreds of thousands on the Winter Gardens, because they've been so utterly useless at getting the Winter Gardens restored so far. Yet now someone else (national government) has provided a pot of money they can go for, they still think we've got to support a loss-making building. FFS come up with a business plan that works and not some imbecilic venture that will lead yet again to its closure.

Morecambe people wake up!

Well Done

I was explaining why the Morecambe Bay Independents have had so much success in elections.

There is a perception that Morecambe has been starved of investment to the benefit of Lancaster. The illuminations were scrapped on the understanding that this funding was used for festivals which have subsequently also been cancelled.

The MBI are a very useful place for people to "protest vote" and that will be the case yet again.

[Posh]

Well Done

I was explaining why the Morecambe Bay Independents have had so much success in elections.

There is a perception that Morecambe has been starved of investment to the benefit of Lancaster. The illuminations were scrapped on the understanding that this funding was used for festivals which have subsequently also been cancelled.

The MBI are a very useful place for people to "protest vote" and that will be the case yet again.

How is it a useful place for a 'protest vote' when they've gained power, failed miserably, lost it through lies and deceit (Trisha Heath), got more power and are failing again?

They've got where they are by attacking the perceived failure of others (at least Labour tried with Blobby to do something to help Morecambe) yet when they get the power their failures are far worse and their ability to make positive change is non-existent. Personally I also blame the other parties, particularly Labour - Geraldine Smith and Rebekah Gerrard may as well be in the MBI for their views on local politics, and many more refuse to take them on given their record.

Hopefully the Morecambe Town Council will come back to bite them firmly in the arse. The addition of an unexpected £44,000 a year to cover the cost of PCSOs should wake them up to what running a council is all about.

[Gnasher]

Morecambe people wake up!

I was already awake I would be interested in standing for a local council, that's Lancaster's, not the illegal one we're lumbered with in Morecambe. Unfortunately time is against me, what little time I have I dedicate to my family who, this week, I won't have seen from 6:30am Sunday to late Friday evening.

When I've tried to contact my local councillor, who invited contact through a newsletter, I am ignored.

The MBI slogan of people before politics is really beginning to piss me off and Clayton's answer, slagging off other parties, backs up what I have been saying all along. Pathetic local party politics - exactly what the MBIs claim not be. Another MBI lie, I'll file it with the Parish Council stuff.

[clayton]

I have not slagged any party off; you can’t say resident first are not political when they are all member of the labour party. David Needham may not be an activist I apologise for that but he is a member of labour and has stood before

[Gnasher]

I have not slagged any party off; you can’t say resident first are not political when they are all member of the labour party. David Needham may not be an activist I apologise for that but he is a member of labour and has stood before

You don't slag off political parties then carry on with a political party dig

Clayton, if the MBIs put people before politics then perhaps you could take 5 mins away from trying to play politics (i.e. trying to link RF to Labour) and answer the email at the start of this thread which to date has been ignored.

Unless, of course, you put politics before people?

[clayton]

Thats nothing to do with me but my thoughts on what i was told about the Parish/Town council is
Check your council tax again a band B is costing £11.95 per year to Non Parished / Special Expenses .
That is going to the Morecambe Parish to be spent on Morecambe, unlike last year that money was spent in the rurals, so why should the people of Morecambe/ Lancaster pay that precept , which we all have for the last 10 years or so and seen nothing for it.
That is why the conservatives were against it , because most of them are rural councillors.
That is how I under stand it to work.

[Gnasher]

Thanks for nothing Clayton. So what exactly is "to do with you"? You come on here apparently speaking on behalf of the MBIs yet when faced with a question from a genuine, non-political morecambe council tax payer, you take the cowards option. And you wonder why I have no respect for the MBIs, pathetic.

I'm Band C and if I remember the leaflet correctly, an extra £19 has been added to MY council tax bill to pay for the Morecambe Parish Council. That's EXTRA money, not money taken out of a rural parish budget.

If you choose to reply to this, perhaps you could follow the MBI mantra and not bring political parties into your answer. All I ask for are simple answers to simple questions.

[clayton]

check last years then this years you will see you were paying it

[Gnasher]

Well done clayton, keep avoiding the real questions and stick to something you know sweet FA about. I KNOW I've been subsidising rural parishes, I'm not that bloody stupid, and I've been doing it for far bloody longer than two years.

The money for Morecambe Parish Council has NOT simply been diverted from rural parishes, it is IN ADDITION to whatever I would have been paying and it still includes subsidies for rural parishes.

What has pissed me off is the assumption that I am willing to pay EXTRA for a council founded on a lie. I don't want it and I don't want to pay council tax knowing it will go in the pockets of a council founded on a lie.

[clayton]

You have a attitude problem

[Gnasher]

I assume because you have not contradicted my statements that I am in fact correct. Thank you for confirming that, I will make sure it gets published far & wide during the elections that the MBIs have lied to us and they are costing us money.