O/T To mask or not to mask?

[BerlinWaller]

Is there any proof that asymptomatic people pass the virus on and infect others? I know there is speculation but has it been proven?

I am not disputing that masks stop infections but do old socks, scarves and snoods?

Was there no evidence in to face coverings prior to March 2020? Going through youtube, it appears the clips of Whitty, Vallance and Van Tam claiming there is no evidence showing masks will help have gone.

[ChrisC]

Why the hell do people think asthma stops them from wearing a mask?!

People with asthma should wear a mask more than most people unless they are having an acute attack (when they shouldn't be wandering about as it may be evidence of Covid)

I'm delighted that supermarkets are eventually going to get tough. Not before time.

[morecambegeek]

Mask wearing is common in Asian countries. This article explains why Taiwan may have been more successful in limiting the spread than other countries due to mask wearing being something than happens more usually there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7270822/

[tim-sanchez]

Is there any proof that asymptomatic people pass the virus on and infect others? I know there is speculation but has it been proven?

Yes, there are peer-reviewed studies on this. Whilst asymptomatic people are less likely to pass the virus on, there's still a significant risk:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7508369/

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 20097543v3

[captain sparkle]

Here's a new angle,
I've thought about this forever, being the happy, jolly optimist I am (think it's on account of growing up in the "finger on the nuclear button" 1960s).
We need to get this right a.s.a.p., but definitely right, so we know what works & what doesn't & just wastes valuable research time.
The next virus, instead of "only" killing 1%, may "only" kill 10% or 50% or 90% of the population. So we'd better get this sorted quick!

On a lighter note, being as the naysayers spout on about the lack of people dying because of Co-Vid, today nearly as many people died of Co-Vid as the number of UK road fatalities in the WHOLE of 2019 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t-2019.pdf)
so, presumably those same people don't adhere to any speed limits, red traffic lights etc. etc. & absolutely will never have worn a seatbelt?

that is all, have a nice day.

[Andy D]

you can wear a scarf.

[Phil Anderer]

Here's a new angle,
I've thought about this forever, being the happy, jolly optimist I am (think it's on account of growing up in the "finger on the nuclear button" 1960s).
We need to get this right a.s.a.p., but definitely right, so we know what works & what doesn't & just wastes valuable research time.
The next virus, instead of "only" killing 1%, may "only" kill 10% or 50% or 90% of the population. So we'd better get this sorted quick!

On a lighter note, being as the naysayers spout on about the lack of people dying because of Co-Vid, today nearly as many people died of Co-Vid as the number of UK road fatalities in the WHOLE of 2019 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t-2019.pdf)
so, presumably those same people don't adhere to any speed limits, red traffic lights etc. etc. & absolutely will never have worn a seatbelt?

that is all, have a nice day.

It might sound odd, but a virus with a 90% fatality rate would kill a lot fewer people, as its hosts would likely die out before it got passed on to enough people. Most viruses mutate to become more communicable (already happened) and less fatal- it's a survival mechanism.

[captain sparkle]

Hadn't thought of such a scenario,
entirely possible if it brought about a rapid demise in its victims.

[Keith]

It might sound odd, but a virus with a 90% fatality rate would kill a lot fewer people, as its hosts would likely die out before it got passed on to enough people. Most viruses mutate to become more communicable (already happened) and less fatal- it's a survival mechanism.

Basically why SARS & MERS did not develop in to a pandemic, the virus made people ill or dead too quickly. This is a really good virus. Spreading via asymptomatic people or before the host becomes unwell ensures that it spreads quickly.

Is there any proof that asymptomatic people pass the virus on and infect others? I know there is speculation but has it been proven?

I am not disputing that masks stop infections but do old socks, scarves and snoods?

Was there no evidence in to face coverings prior to March 2020? Going through youtube, it appears the clips of Whitty, Vallance and Van Tam claiming there is no evidence showing masks will help have gone.

The comments from Professor Whitty at the beginning of the pandemic was that there is little protection to the mask wearer. The advice has been for a long time that mouth covering, even with a scarf, will protect other people if the wearer is shedding virus. Wearing a face covering is altruistic.

If still struggling with the concept...

[Born again Bill]

Been to Asda tonight , as you enter there are two staff reminding you about the face covering rule . Well done to them !. Problem was people were putting them on to go in then taking them off again with no staff approaching them to give them a gentle reminder !!!

[captain sparkle]

I was wondering if people would do that, at least it proves they probably don't have a medical exemption, and ,as such, can be dragged into the warehouse around the back & have rancid fish scales poured over them. Just as a warning, you know.

And another thing, anyone seen any flu charts recently? I have a theory that, as people are in lockdown & wearing masks when shopping, rates of Flu/colds & the like will plummet, just interested.

[Born again Bill]

Been to Asda tonight , as you enter there are two staff reminding you about the face covering rule . Well done to them !. Problem was people were putting them on to go in then taking them off again with no staff approaching them to give them a gentle reminder !!!

Just to add to that comment one of the store managers wasn’t wearing any form of face covering so leading by example had gone out of the window

[Slanester]

And another thing, anyone seen any flu charts recently? I have a theory that, as people are in lockdown & wearing masks when shopping, rates of Flu/colds & the like will plummet, just interested.

I haven’t checked in the last week or so, but it was looking like almost 0 Flu cases. ( Chart I checked.) That takes some thinking about?? COVID out of control, flu nearly 0. I will stand corrected for up to date info, Keith.

[scalehallshrimp]

No staff at home bargains wearing masks so what's it all about

[skyecat]

My wife currently has a cold (or at least, that's what we think it is). A friend also has a cold - got tested, and it IS just a cold.
My wife also has long covid and is now into month 10 of symptoms - has never tested positive for the virus, OR the antibodies.
When she first got symptoms, testing wasn't rolled out to everyone so she wasn't eligible at that time.
When she was eligible for testing, it was day 12 of symptoms so, I am led to believe, the virus wasn't contagious and would only ever come up as a negative.
Equally, the antibodies test was carried out about 12 weeks after the actual virus symptoms had subsided and came back negative, which again, I'm led to believe would be the case due to antibody tests being more accurate within 5 weeks of the last symptom leaving.
Make of this what you will - some will say it's not Covid related - but then, what is it? some will say it IS and she's one of a very small handful of people (about 30,000 in the UK i think - if you can call that small). But palpitations, dizziness, swollen hands and fingers, intolerance to exercise (previously went to the gym 3 times a week, cycled at least once a week or so), walked 10,000 steps a day, every day), now struggles if she does over 4,000 steps a day. Headaches, lost over 2 stone in weight, occasional stabbing chest pains, pins and needles, feeling like your blood has been swapped with lemonade..I could go on.
As I have said, some people may thing it's not Covid - but it's pretty damn ironic and coincidental that it's all started from losing her sense of smell and taste for 2 days, getting brain fog and dizziness back in April (among a few other symptoms). We feel it IS real, we feel it IS very contagious, I wash shopping off when I get it home, wear a mask in all stores, anti bac my hands regularly etc.
There was some talk about specific blood types too, so I don't know if that is anything to do with it?
I have shown no symptoms whatsoever so have not been tested at all.
Nikki has had the paramedics out 4 times, been in A & E 3 times, under the charge of a mental health nurse, a physio, her regular doctor, has had numerous blood tests and eCGs an MRI and a CT scan of her heart, yet all come back clear/normal. This thing is weird. Stay safe, whatever you choose to do AND THINK OF OTHER PEOPLE!

[Westgate Wanderer]

Been to Asda tonight , as you enter there are two staff reminding you about the face covering rule . Well done to them !. Problem was people were putting them on to go in then taking them off again with no staff approaching them to give them a gentle reminder !!!

Just to add to that comment one of the store managers wasn’t wearing any form of face covering so leading by example had gone out of the window

Visited Sainsbury's Lancaster tonight, 3 staff members at the entrance, one on her phone, two security (?) men chatting to each other,i approach with trolley wait to be sure i can enter NONE of them even looked at me! Too busy socialising together. Also in the store there were couples shopping together!! Did my best to avoid people as much as possible but too many still lean over trolleys to get stuff instead of waiting for shoppers to move on.

[Keith]

And another thing, anyone seen any flu charts recently? I have a theory that, as people are in lockdown & wearing masks when shopping, rates of Flu/colds & the like will plummet, just interested.

I haven’t checked in the last week or so, but it was looking like almost 0 Flu cases. ( Chart I checked.) That takes some thinking about?? COVID out of control, flu nearly 0. I will stand corrected for up to date info, Keith.

Not sure what takes thinking about? Flu is nowhere near as infectious as COVID-19 but is spread in the same way. Flu is seasonal, it arrives in the UK around the end of October and leaves around February, peaking in January. The UK was already facing control measures by the start of the flu season.

In the worst flu seasons, with the NHS almost brought to its knees, 7% of the population will get infected.
Left unchecked, COVID-19 will infect around 50% to 80% of the population. Can't even imagine what that would do to the NHS?

[jbc.shrimp]

[quote="scalehallshrimp"]No staff at home bargains wearing masks so what's it all about[/quote

Scalehallshrimp, not trying to dismiss your comment, just curious. Were they wearing the clear face guards, as so may other stores are issuing to staff instead, as these are far easier to breath in.

[Slanester]

And another thing, anyone seen any flu charts recently? I have a theory that, as people are in lockdown & wearing masks when shopping, rates of Flu/colds & the like will plummet, just interested.

I haven’t checked in the last week or so, but it was looking like almost 0 Flu cases. ( Chart I checked.) That takes some thinking about?? COVID out of control, flu nearly 0. I will stand corrected for up to date info, Keith.

Not sure what takes thinking about? Flu is nowhere near as infectious as COVID-19 but is spread in the same way. Flu is seasonal, it arrives in the UK around the end of October and leaves around February, peaking in January. The UK was already facing control measures by the start of the flu season.

In the worst flu seasons, with the NHS almost brought to its knees, 7% of the population will get infected.
Left unchecked, COVID-19 will infect around 50% to 80% of the population. Can't even imagine what that would do to the NHS?

That is one interpretation Keith, and maybe just what the explanation is of the figures? I can’t be 100% sure, and neither can you.

[Phil Anderer]

Is there any proof that asymptomatic people pass the virus on and infect others? I know there is speculation but has it been proven?

I am not disputing that masks stop infections but do old socks, scarves and snoods?

Was there no evidence in to face coverings prior to March 2020? Going through youtube, it appears the clips of Whitty, Vallance and Van Tam claiming there is no evidence showing masks will help have gone.

I've long been of the opinion that asymptomatic people would still spread the virus, but not as much as those with a cough, however new research reported today in the Guardian suggests (i.e. not conclusive) that talking is worse than coughing, as droplets are smaller and linger in the air longer. If that's the case then it's highly likely asymptomatic people are as contagious as those with symptoms.

[Keith]

Is there any proof that asymptomatic people pass the virus on and infect others? I know there is speculation but has it been proven?

I am not disputing that masks stop infections but do old socks, scarves and snoods?

Was there no evidence in to face coverings prior to March 2020? Going through youtube, it appears the clips of Whitty, Vallance and Van Tam claiming there is no evidence showing masks will help have gone.

I've long been of the opinion that asymptomatic people would still spread the virus, but not as much as those with a cough, however new research reported today in the Guardian suggests (i.e. not conclusive) that talking is worse than coughing, as droplets are smaller and linger in the air longer. If that's the case then it's highly likely asymptomatic people are as contagious as those with symptoms.

According to the British Medical Journal, while the viral load in asymptomatic people is similar to that of symptomatic, the shedding of RNA is reduced, therefore the asymptomatic people are less infectious.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851