OFF TOPIC - LOCAL POLITICS - You Have Been Warned!

[marky]

The reason I mentioned Ben Wallace was the fact that he's the only member of the top 5 not to represent a Scottish constituency. I can almost understand Lib Dem Alistair Carmichael being in third when you consider he represents Shetland & Orkney!! Given The Telegraph is a Tory paper I won't give them much credence but it's worth pointing out that Philip Hollobone (Tory MP for Kettering) is the exception rather than the rule. I seem to recall he doesn't employ any researchers, nor does he have a secretary. Of course, I bet The Torygraph didn't make a big play of the fact 3 of the top 5 frugal MPs are of the Labour persuasion (one of whom is as left-wing as they get, Dennis Skinner).

According to the Sunday Telegraph and Bloomberg, that's not right. They recon the expenses were: £152,251 for Wallace and £148,849 for Smith.

Those were the figures for 2006/2007. Somehow they managed to spend an extra £47,000 between them in 2007/2008!

[Curly]

The reason I mentioned Ben Wallace was the fact that he's the only member of the top 5 not to represent a Scottish constituency. I can almost understand Lib Dem Alistair Carmichael being in third when you consider he represents Shetland & Orkney!! Given The Telegraph is a Tory paper I won't give them much credence but it's worth pointing out that Philip Hollobone (Tory MP for Kettering) is the exception rather than the rule. I seem to recall he doesn't employ any researchers, nor does he have a secretary. Of course, I bet The Torygraph didn't make a big play of the fact 3 of the top 5 frugal MPs are of the Labour persuasion (one of whom is as left-wing as they get, Dennis Skinner).

According to the Sunday Telegraph and Bloomberg, that's not right. They recon the expenses were: £152,251 for Wallace and £148,849 for Smith.

Those were the figures for 2006/2007. Somehow they managed to spend an extra £47,000 between them in 2007/2008!

That's a lot of PrOn Dvds

[Heysham_Shrimp]

I found this on youtube and it is excellent :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9TVlzd ... re=related

[bigreddog]

Maybe the fundamental link with the points made about Mr Wallace, Ms Smith et al and the start of this thread from Gnasher is that politicians always seem very comfortable spending money when it's ours.

They always used to say that politics is showbiz for ugly people. that's okay though, I'd settle for showbiz for competent people, but unfortunately the evidence is a little weak right now.

[bigreddog]

I found this on youtube and it is excellent :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9TVlzd ... re=related

This video is ironic in a weird kind of way. It's a perfect example of people trying to be the antidote of spin while getting most of their own facts wrong, which last time I checked is well..spin. Mr Gill, our american comentator completely gets it wrong that Mr Hannan is an MP, rather than an MEP. Then Mr Hannan, with a fabulous oratorical style no doubt, gets his fundamental economic fact wrong. this falacy that the present government has been increasing debt when the interest payments on the debt alone in 1997 exceded spending on education and health is nonesense. it's the well played but rubbish line of " you should have been reparing the roof while the sun shined". well the fact that schools and hospitals didn't have roofs and the the cost of unemployment and national debt, that had been acrued to service tax cuts, seems to have passed the likes of Mr Hannan by.

On top of all of that: I don't know whether it's deliberate, accidental or just subconscious. but the " devalued prime minister of a devalued government" line is a direct quote from the debate about the ERM debacle of 1992, made by the late labour leader John Smith. Now there's taking the mickey for you.

[PUNKISDEAD]

The gravy train has gained speed since you posted, Benny is now up to 171000 pounds and Geraldine is about 5 grand behind, I doubt peter Kays Geraldine is earning as much, oh no, I stand corrected, the real Geraldine does it for charity, as opposed to serving the local community, ah well ,as it says in animal farm, the animals looked through the window, the pigs were stood on two feet, some animals are more equal than others !!!!!

[bigreddog]

I'm sure our Geraldine will be singing this...

http://www.musicloversgroup.com/geraldi ... nd-lyrics/

...when she see's her final salary pension scheme if/when she ever gets unelected

[Heysham_Shrimp]

The reason I mentioned Ben Wallace was the fact that he's the only member of the top 5 not to represent a Scottish constituency. I can almost understand Lib Dem Alistair Carmichael being in third when you consider he represents Shetland & Orkney!! Given The Telegraph is a Tory paper I won't give them much credence but it's worth pointing out that Philip Hollobone (Tory MP for Kettering) is the exception rather than the rule. I seem to recall he doesn't employ any researchers, nor does he have a secretary. Of course, I bet The Torygraph didn't make a big play of the fact 3 of the top 5 frugal MPs are of the Labour persuasion (one of whom is as left-wing as they get, Dennis Skinner).

According to the Sunday Telegraph and Bloomberg, that's not right. They recon the expenses were: £152,251 for Wallace and £148,849 for Smith.

Those were the figures for 2006/2007. Somehow they managed to spend an extra £47,000 between them in 2007/2008!

In the interests of balance it should be stated that Mr Wallace's expenses included an additional amount of £9,512 in respect of Maternity Cover. Without this Mr Wallace's total expenses would have been less than Miss Smiths although both would still be grossly extravagant.

[bigreddog]

Ben's had a baby???!!!

Bloody hell. Maybe he should keep the money then.

Belated congrats Ben ( and presumably Mrs Ben too)

[Keith]

Ben's had a baby???!!!

Bloody hell. Maybe he should keep the money then.

Belated congrats Ben ( and presumably Mrs Ben too)

Is "Mrs Ben" his researcher/secretary/whatever? "Presumably" if she isn't, then it's congrats to Mr Ben's secretery and in that case, hopefully NOT congrats to Ben!

Talking of expenses for family members, even allowing for Jacqui Smith's husband 'making a mistake', he is also her paid "assistant", on £40,000 a year. If any of us were on business and submitted a claim for porn, we could probably expect to be disciplined, I know I would. Mind you, depending upon the films, disciplined may not be too much of a punishment!

They wonder why the public think so little of politicians?

[Posh]

On the subject of all things political, how do Lancaster residents feel about the fact their local MP, Conservative Ben Wallace, made the fourth highest expenses claim in 2007/2008 at a massive £175,523?

I have absolutely no problem with Ben Wallace taking that much in expenses. He is one of very few MPs to publish his entire expenses to the public, and was commended with a few awards for doing so.

The vast majority of this covers the rent of an office, stationery, postage, at least one secretary to deal with constituency enquiries etc., a researcher to find details for debates and to ensure the MP is up to speed on all matters. Someone like Charles Kennedy employs seven staff to cover the huge area of his constituency.

The rest goes on having somewhere to stay in London overnight and travel to and from London.

I realise that politicians of all parties are abusing the system but the majority aren't and only receive what's needed, not for themselves, but in order to properly do their jobs and to server their constituents. If you don't like it you can vote them out (unlike bankers etc.). I find the cynicism utterly appalling but, given the current climate its understandable.

The biggest problem I have is that the debate is fuelled by the likes of the Daily Express. They've slashed the number of journalists, sub-editors etc. sometimes in appalling fashion, yet the owner paid himself £11 million last year from earnings from the Star, Express and his hardcore porn empire; and the editor drives around in a chaufferred car with his £500,000 salary - bigger than any MP can earn in 8 years or the Prime Minister who looks after a £1/2 trillion pound budget and millions of staff can earn in three. P.S. The editor of the Daily Mail took home £1.2 million last year, despite breaches of privacy, paying money to the McCann family etc. etc. A plague on their houses too.

[Keith]

If you don't like it you can vote them out (unlike bankers etc.). I find the cynicism utterly appalling but, given the current climate its understandable.

So what do you think about Cabinet members who claim for a second home that is further away from the Palace of Westminster than his own home? Or claiming for their husband's porn? If Cabinet members won't act reasonably or take responsibility when they have made mistakes, why is the "cynicism utterly appalling" rather than utterly reasonable? As for voting them out, the noses are in the trough on all sides, it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always wins... Cynical? Perhaps, but until enough of them step off the gravy train, it will prevail.

[Gnasher]

No reply yet, not even an acknowledgement. They must be so busy filling in their expense claims for the new town council

[Gnasher]

A working week later, sweet feck all from the MBIs. Why publish a newsletter with a council email address stamped on it if you can't be arsed replying?

[P/T Indie]

I got my newsletter today in the westgate ward and as soon as I saw it I thought I wonder if Brian got one and has had a rant about it yet

[wijit]

I realise that politicians of all parties are abusing the system but the majority aren't and only receive what's needed, not for themselves, but in order to properly do their jobs and to server their constituents. If you don't like it you can vote them out (unlike bankers etc.). I find the cynicism utterly appalling but, given the current climate its understandable.

The biggest problem I have is that the debate is fuelled by the likes of the Daily Express. They've slashed the number of journalists, sub-editors etc. sometimes in appalling fashion, yet the owner paid himself £11 million last year from earnings from the Star, Express and his hardcore porn empire; and the editor drives around in a chaufferred car with his £500,000 salary - bigger than any MP can earn in 8 years or the Prime Minister who looks after a £1/2 trillion pound budget and millions of staff can earn in three. P.S. The editor of the Daily Mail took home £1.2 million last year, despite breaches of privacy, paying money to the McCann family etc. etc. A plague on their houses too.

To be honest, Mr Posh (IF that's your real name, which I doubt) As we don't have total transparency on these expenses, we don't actually know that everything they are claiming IS "what's needed" We can vote them out, but the alternative is almost certainly someone who will do just the same.

As for the Daily Express, and I dislike everything about it with a passion, the owner is the owner and so can pay himself what he likes, and if he feels buisness needs require staff reduction then that is, unfortunately, his right to go ahead and do so. I wholly agree with you that bthese people are the lice on the worlds' bottom, but you need to remember that we, wffectively, employ those in Parliament, and yet unlike any other employer, we don't choose what our staff get paid, or what perks they can have.
I don't like my next bit, but it's true, this isn't the fault of those we see as abusing the system they have, it is the fauly of the system and also of ours for not voting them out or kicking up a bigger stink. Instead, we sit around tables and in bars telling each other how bad it is.

[Gnasher]

First, an apology. Sorry Mark S, I know you don't like these political threads but I'll try to keep it in one place

So, the candidates have been listed for the new Morecambe Parish Council. Amongst them is my own councillor, June Ashworth. For the record, I still have not had any reply to any emails. Ignorant councillor? You decide.

And what else have we got? Residents First, "party politics should be kept out of the Town Council". I wonder where they got that idea, is one of them an SV member, I wonder

The only thing I find disappointing is no one is standing with the intention of shutting the damned thing down. Founded on a lie, it's a noose around morecambe's neck.

[Mike Blackstone]

We don't even know who is standing for election! Apart from a general MBI leaflet, which was mentioned above, not heard anything else. We don't buy the local newspaper any more (stopped doing that way back) , don't listen to local radio, so I guess we'll never know! Gone are the days of door knocking rustling up support. In fact I can only recall that happening once in six years.

One thing I quickly noticed when I moved here in 2002 was the unbelievable digs that councillors had at each other on the letters pages of the paper (that's when we did buy them). This was never the case in East Devon, or at least nowhere near as often.

My Dad was local councillor in Exmouth for many years.

[Gnasher]

The full list is on the Visitor web site.

[Mike Blackstone]

The full list is on the Visitor web site.

Just had a look, but the trouble is it doesn't really tell you anything about the individuals. It is just a list. To me, there is no place for party politics in local councils. Oh for the days when everyone is an Independent, and I mean truly independent, not a member of an independent group. They speak for themselves and also try and represent as best they can, those who voted for them.

[Gnasher]

Couldn't agree more. Apparently we have a group on the council already claiming to be just that but I'm afraid the I stands for Incompetent instead of Independent.

Try this as well, there's 2 downloads at the right of the page

http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/council-and ... elections/

[bigreddog]

One of these people standing in the parish council is indeed an SV member. That would be me. My basic leaflet is being done this weekend and then I'll get round and tell people what I'm about (talking to people on their own door step isn't gone yet). Personally I would love to have the whole thing scrapped and if that's what the people who hopefully put the effort into voting for me say I'm happy to have that as a central pillar of my own agenda. The thing is it's here now whether I like it or not, okay the people who set it up seem to have told people it would be instead of the city council instead of as well as it and they've also claimed in the local press for the last year that it wouldn't cost anything. we all now know that those claims were inacurate. But they played within the rules, okay just over 2000 people have dictated the future to a population in the constituency of 68000, but there's nothing I can do about that at the moment.

For my own part. And I don't want to use SV as a party political broadcast ( so sorry mark in advance), but as all those who know me will be aware I've been a Labour activist for ages. my party ( me included) decided at the turn of the year after we canvassed for interest that we shouldn't put any candidates forward. But I love Morecambe, it's my home town and I want it to succeed. I could not stand by and let a bunch of people who claim to be the only arbitors of what is good for Morecambe, but have campaigned against every bit of progress around here, to have a free run. It may be old fashioned but I believe in public service. This year that means I will not stand by and trust those people who said the parish council would cost nothing to spend the money they never thought they'd have. The Residents First thing is merely so you know who shares those values right across morecambe, most of whom by the way are members of no political party at all, some business men, some nurses, some working mums. Anyway Gnasher I admit it it's me. You can acost me in the arndale any time you're available.

[Gnasher]

The thing is it's here now whether I like it or not

Get elected and put a proposal forward to scrap it.

okay the people who set it up seem to have told people it would be instead of the city council instead of as well as it and they've also claimed in the local press for the last year that it wouldn't cost anything. we all now know that those claims were inacurate.

Sorry but that's a typical political answer. Bollox to inaccurate, they LIED to over 2000 people.

But they played within the rules, okay just over 2000 people have dictated the future to a population in the constituency of 68000, but there's nothing I can do about that at the moment.

If they played within the rules then it's OK to lie, is it?

Morecambe Parish Council, founded on a lie at our expense.

[Heysham_Shrimp]

The root of the problem is that Morecambe should have its own proper Council and not a Parish Council.

You could do a graph showing the decline in Morecambe's prosperity etc from 1974 when Lancaster CC took us in.

Why the hell should Lancaster's Green Party Coucillors be allowed to veto or affect Morecambe planning decisions.

[bigreddog]

The thing is it's here now whether I like it or not

Get elected and put a proposal forward to scrap it.

okay the people who set it up seem to have told people it would be instead of the city council instead of as well as it and they've also claimed in the local press for the last year that it wouldn't cost anything. we all now know that those claims were inacurate.

Sorry but that's a typical political answer. Bollox to inaccurate, they LIED to over 2000 people.

But they played within the rules, okay just over 2000 people have dictated the future to a population in the constituency of 68000, but there's nothing I can do about that at the moment.

If they played within the rules then it's OK to lie, is it?

Morecambe Parish Council, founded on a lie at our expense.

Gnasher the reason I did not and cannot say they lied is because I have not personaly seen the petition they put forward. If it said at the top that it was instead of LCC then yes it was founded on a lie, but it's not me being a politician not to accuse somebody of something I don't have direct proof of, I just want to be fair. My fundamental problem with them is that they just dont get it. The rules thing is that if you get a certain percentage in favour of a parish you can have one, I personaly disagree with the concept, but they did at least from a numbers point of view play by the rules. but it all gets us back to a couple of questions: what were they telling people when they were signing the petition? and what did the petition actually say?

on the subject of Morecambe's decline being down to Lancaster, even though there is no evidence that public money was ever diverted or that we were any worse off than any other seaside town that declined the moment freddy Laker told the masses they could all go to spain on the cheap, here's a quote for you:

"Well in 1977 like all other seaside resorts, Morecambe was no different. There was a big decline and people were going on foreign holidays and the seaside resorts were sort of suffering because of it"

"We can't go back to what it was like in the 30s. We can't go back where when I owned a hotel, people used to come on a Saturday and stay for a week or a fortnight . I don't think that's the market we're looking at now. If people want to go on a summer holiday they go abroad because they can be guaranteed the sun"

Both quotes are of course from Cllr Evelyn Archer in an interview with Manchester Metropolitan University 2005.

just for reference purposes I'd better put the link on so you can see for yourself though:

http://www.csi.mmu.ac.uk/sitami/media/m ... cript.html