sainsbury's deal ....sums up the negative impact of money

[Sabes]

As this is a discussion board... i am just offering my opinion about the whole moving ground saga and how i feel that it has and will have a negative impact on the town. I wasn't aware that the club could sell ground bequived to the town, not to the club but to the town. it sums up every that is wrong with morecambe town, and the people that run it.

why move to make more money? we can't successfully manage the budget we have at the moment as the recent transfer embargo as shown.

if we do move, the ground should go back to playing feilds as stated when it was left to the club. that is my biggest dissapointment. a promise now means nothing. except making space for another supermarket in a town that doesn't need it. if the town is desperate for jobs and a community spirit keep the dome open spend money on the winter gardens. build real facilities for the children of the town.

Christie park is a great reflection of the history of the club each part of it built to mark a triumph, each blade of grass, looked after so that the pitch is a brilliant surface to play football. the new ground will be a bland copy of other projects.. we announced it before we kicked a ball in the league and it has overshadowed every day of our life in league 2. we don't even look like a team good enough for the league at the moment....

maybe we can't as a club live in the past but we shouldn't forget how it started and the basis for christie park.

that is my view i am aware that it is the minority.. but i feel strong enough to voice it because i love morecambe football club and all its history.

[Keith]

Anyone who expresses an opinion in a reasonable manner is welcome to do so, whether it is a majority or minority view.

I think the problems are all interconnected.

1. Christie Park itself raises revenue on about 30 times a year. The rest of the time, it doesn't bring money in.
2. To be 'financially stable' we need revenue streams that don't just come in on so few occasions, so having retail, conferencing, weddings etc is the only way to produce this.
3. To redevelop Christie Park would involve huge investment and leave the club with crippling debt, so not a viable option.
4. To move and not redevelop CP is also not viable, it is the money from the sale that is funding the new development.
5. To 'live within our means' would result in us being relegated, crowds, sponsorship, prize money etc would all also decline. We might manage to become a mid-table Conference team but more realistically we would become a Conference North side.

This sale & development brings inward investment in to the town, creates 350+ jobs, leaves our club debt free and in a stadium that we won't need to pay rent on, with excellent facilities and allows development for youth football. History? that's a thing of the past, this is about us moving forward.

I'm in no way ashamed to say that I'm sure I'll have a tear in my eye on the day we play our last home game at Christie Park... and I'll probably by moist eyed again, a few months later when we play our first game in our new ground.

And as a PS...

the new ground will be a bland copy of other projects..

If its a "bland copy" of MK Dons Stadium, I'll be delighted! The views & facilities there were stunning, many felt that ground was better than Wembley. We aren't going to be ending up with a copy of Chester's ground, or even Telford, the designs now are with 'customers' in mind... and that'll be us then.

[PUNKISDEAD]

Totally agree with keith on every point!!

[marky]

It's not often I can say this but I'm in entire agreement with Keith. To me, practically all the negatives of the move are emotional/sentimental in nature. I've only been a fan since 1991 (i.e. 8 years old) but being the soft bugger that I am, I'll almost certainly shed a tear or two (or 17). The fact that this move will see us being debt free (and don't forget we could very well make a substantial profit out of this move depending what we actually sold Christie Park for) is almost miraculous and, despite being highly critical of the board over the last 2 months, I must commend them for what they've achieved.

[Silver Fox]

I agree fully with all that Keith has said. Well done to all concerned I say!! Let's all look forward for the good of MFC whatever our fears or misapprehensions!

[durhamshrimp]

As this is a discussion board... i am just offering my opinion about the whole moving ground saga and how i feel that it has and will have a negative impact on the town. I wasn't aware that the club could sell ground bequived to the town, not to the club but to the town. it sums up every that is wrong with morecambe town, and the people that run it.

why move to make more money? we can't successfully manage the budget we have at the moment as the recent transfer embargo as shown.

if we do move, the ground should go back to playing feilds as stated when it was left to the club. that is my biggest dissapointment. a promise now means nothing. except making space for another supermarket in a town that doesn't need it. if the town is desperate for jobs and a community spirit keep the dome open spend money on the winter gardens. build real facilities for the children of the town.

Christie park is a great reflection of the history of the club each part of it built to mark a triumph, each blade of grass, looked after so that the pitch is a brilliant surface to play football. the new ground will be a bland copy of other projects.. we announced it before we kicked a ball in the league and it has overshadowed every day of our life in league 2. we don't even look like a team good enough for the league at the moment....

maybe we can't as a club live in the past but we shouldn't forget how it started and the basis for christie park.

that is my view i am aware that it is the minority.. but i feel strong enough to voice it because i love morecambe football club and all its history.

This is so riddled with flaws I can't even be bothered to start. When you start living in the real world see the first rebuttal for why we need a new stadium.

[wijit]

Sabes, interesting points and I'm sure we all felt the same if only for a short time. But we have to move on, or possibly lose not only ground on the rest but maybe even lose our club. We'll never forget the Pie, from the "all on the wall" gang to the shed it was before the wall it is part of our history but we have no option but to move on and improve.

[George Dawes]

to be honest the amount of negativity on these forums, i think if Morecambe got relegated and stayed at Christie park people would be a lot happier!!

[Posh]

I wasn't aware that the club could sell ground bequived to the town, not to the club but to the town. it sums up every that is wrong with morecambe town, and the people that run it.

Sorry mate but you're wrong.

The deal could only be done with the consent of the trustees of the JB Christie legacy. Each one of them took their own independent legal advice and every one of them agreed with the proposal. The Trust also transfers to the new ground, so really nothing changes.

The Christie legacy had little to do with the town and was focused on the football club and ensuring its survival. This deal achieves that and I'm sure if he were alive today he would fully support this arrangement.

Not only does it safeguard the future of the club it also provides comprehensive community sports facilities for the young people of the town that simply don't exist at Christie Park. Additionally it provides Westgate Wanderers with safe and secure facilities, and excellent pitches for their young people in another part of town.

Every way I look at this its great news for the football club and, because of what's been achieved, the town.

[Posh]

And in much more detail.

http://www.thevisitor.co.uk/morecambe-n ... 4894456.jp

[Gnasher]

The deal could only be done with the consent of the trustees of the JB Christie legacy. Each one of them took their own independent legal advice and every one of them agreed with the proposal. The Trust also transfers to the new ground, so really nothing changes.

I thought the deal looked at years ago, when they were trying to move and re-develop CP as a trading estate, fell through because the deeds did identify a specific piece of land and it couldn't be moved? The deeds do include a map of the land.

Just asking questions, I'm in favour of the deal.

[Keith]

I don't know the legal background to the failure to move 20 years ago but I do know I was 100% against it. We would have had poor facilities, not even as good as Chester and it would not have met any of the issues mentioned re revenue or improved facilities for Westage Wanderers etc. I was also far from convinced that the money raised and the money spent were particularly close, so 'profit' would have been made somewhere along the line. If anything, it's the opposite now, I have no reason to believe that the board are going to make any money out of this (although they will hopefully save the money that they have been putting in to keep the club afloat for years, so yes, in real terms they will 'gain financially' by no longer losing).

Everything I know about this move and everything I know about the people on the board at this time suggests to me that this deal is actually as altruistic as JB Christie himself and that these business men have worked damn hard to get us a great deal, which will place us in a strong position to meet the challenges of the next 89 years.

[Posh]

The deal could only be done with the consent of the trustees of the JB Christie legacy. Each one of them took their own independent legal advice and every one of them agreed with the proposal. The Trust also transfers to the new ground, so really nothing changes.

I thought the deal looked at years ago, when they were trying to move and re-develop CP as a trading estate, fell through because the deeds did identify a specific piece of land and it couldn't be moved? The deeds do include a map of the land.

Just asking questions, I'm in favour of the deal.

As I understand it the purpose of the legacy was to secure the future of Morecambe Football Club not the land on which it played. Effectively this deal moves that legacy to the new ground. So in the unlikely event that MFC folds then the ground and land at Westgate will revert to a play area for the town. Thankfully any prospect of that happening have disappeared as a result of this deal.

The original would never gone through not just because of the issues surrounding it but because the thought, care and due diligence necessary would not have been done, as it has so well in this case.

[Christies Child]

The deal could only be done with the consent of the trustees of the JB Christie legacy. Each one of them took their own independent legal advice and every one of them agreed with the proposal. The Trust also transfers to the new ground, so really nothing changes.

I thought the deal looked at years ago, when they were trying to move and re-develop CP as a trading estate, fell through because the deeds did identify a specific piece of land and it couldn't be moved? The deeds do include a map of the land.

Just asking questions, I'm in favour of the deal.

As I understand it the purpose of the legacy was to secure the future of Morecambe Football Club not the land on which it played. Effectively this deal moves that legacy to the new ground. So in the unlikely event that MFC folds then the ground and land at Westgate will revert to a play area for the town. Thankfully any prospect of that happening have disappeared as a result of this deal.

The original would never gone through not just because of the issues surrounding it but because the thought, care and due diligence necessary would not have been done, as it has so well in this case.

...and the alternative was the demise of our club. This time the need to succeed was far greater than an acceptance of defeat.

[PUNKISDEAD]

Given that no money will be changing hands until july 2010

which Sainsburys will be selling Morecambe bay shrimps first?

the one on Lancaster road

or will the shrimps be sold up the river?

[Mike]

Good post, and some very good responses ( not all, some were just rubbish ).

Fingers crossed for a positive future for all.

[glagys]

Christie Park itself raises revenue on about 30 times a year. The rest of the time, it doesn't bring money in.

and i think with careful planning that is where some serious money could be made, with the demise of the Dome and the plans for a 300 seat banqueting suite you can start looking to hire the rooms out shows, weddings etc,
as i said in a previous thread i was at the platform on saturday to watch Jason Manford, the platform was full 300 people @ £14 less his fee ?? and staff wages ?? and he's booked another show,
i know it's a small venue but i brings money in and i would sooner see money gonig into the club coffers and thats just one show, look through the local papers and you often see rooms hired my clairvoyants, mediums, wedding fayre's etc, there really is alot of scope for the club to earn money and i for one am all for it ( and the new ground is within walking distance LOL)

and perhaps it might become a decent place to go and have a good night out with a comedy showband/group and decent sponsership from a brewery, it really is a chance for morecambe to be put on the map and capitalise on the lack of venues in the town

rant over LOL

[Gnasher]

If the ground/pitch itself could be used as an outdoor venue, even better. They've managed it at the old Wembley (ahh, memories of a Bryan Adams concert) and wasn't it Darlington that was hosting Elton?

[Keith]

and perhaps it might become a decent place to go and have a good night out with a comedy showband/group and decent sponsership from a brewery, it really is a chance for morecambe to be put on the map and capitalise on the lack of venues in the town

rant over LOL

Not a "rant", an excellent post! Great idea if the design can be such that it incorporates that type of venue, it would be great to have a comedy club bringing in cash.

And then when Negative Ned is being critical at a match he can say 'what's he doing now? That's just a joke...'

[Gnasher]

And then when Negative Ned is being critical at a match he can say 'what's he doing now? That's just a joke...'

Keith, what a golden opportuinty you missed there. As the North Stand shouts What do you think of it so far Ned? He replies ......

[Keith]

As the North Stand shouts What do you think of it so far Ned? He replies ......

Bloomin' 'eck, he's bad enough without us asking!

[shrimper]

[i]
I thought the deal looked at years ago, when they were trying to move and re-develop CP as a trading estate, fell through because the deeds did identify a specific piece of land and it couldn't be moved? The deeds do include a map of the land.

Just asking questions, I'm in favour of the deal.

The JB Christie issue DID emerge during those previous discussions (I attended most of the public meetings about the plans) but then, as now, I think most of the objections were based on slight (but important) misunderstandings.

There were phrases like 'we believed' and 'we always understood' when people objecting to the proposals cited the 'Christie Trust' objection. They didn't 'know', they hadn't looked at the trust details or the reports from the time.

In any case, in truth most of the vociferous objections came from people who were enjoying cheap and convenient booze at the auxiliary club (not all, some had other genuine objections). They were using Christie as a way of trying to scupper the plans.

To repeat - he GAVE the land jointly to the FC and to the corporation but his priority was definitely to look after the club (that's very clear from all the old reports in The Visitor at the time).
The corporation were most probably only involved at all because he feared for the future of the club once he was no longer around to keep donating money. He didn't have a lot of time for the corporation and criticised it frequently for not giving the FC more money.

You only have to look at those old reports (which we repeated when the club announced the new stadium plans) to see just how passionately he felt for the club.

The precise wording of the guidance to the trustees (and that's what it was, it wasn't a legally binding 'covenant') was that in the event of the club 'ceasing to exist' - and that's the key phrase, it wasn't 'if the club has no use for the land any more' or 'if the club wants to move away' - then the land should revert to public use as a council run play area for children and sportsmen of the area.

That previous retail park deal (late 1980s) didn't fail on these 'Christie trust' grounds at all, (IIRC), there were planning objections based on the 'need' for such a development and its impact on other retail areas.

Then the firm that was planning it (Thornfield) went bust anyway.

Anyway - as Stephen Wright illustrates - the current trustees are happy, so are the legal people who have been asked to adjudicate and so is anyone who has looked at the actual wording of the conditions and the reports from the time.

As has been said, so would Mr Christie be.

It's not like they've just ignored it all, they've been very sensitive about that issue this time round and have gone into it thoroughly.

*******

On the new stadium there is a heck of a lot of scope for good income from the function rooms. Weddings and suchlike would be a big money-spinner. Most of the venues in town that cater for that sort of thing aren't big enough to host 300.
Wigan's JJB was advertising a £25-a-head four course meal and tribute act cabaret night when I went there the other week.

[Keith]

You only have to look at those old reports (which we repeated when the club announced the new stadium plans) to see just how passionately he felt for the club.

Glen, how/where can the public view these? Are they available at the museum or are they in your own archive? Is there any chance of them being made available on line? Also, wouldn't they make a fantastic feature for the Visitor over the next couple of weeks? "What Would JB Think?" A great chance to tie nostalgia and history with the biggest story in the town for a long while! (Remember to send me a copy for the idea )

[Mark S]

You only have to look at those old reports (which we repeated when the club announced the new stadium plans) to see just how passionately he felt for the club.

Glen, how/where can the public view these? Are they available at the museum or are they in your own archive? Is there any chance of them being made available on line? Also, wouldn't they make a fantastic feature for the Visitor over the next couple of weeks? "What Would JB Think?" A great chance to tie nostalgia and history with the biggest story in the town for a long while! (Remember to send me a copy for the idea )

What a great idea!

Oh! wait! They did it back when the initial announcement was made

You really should get a subscription you know

[Keith]

What a great idea!

As soon as I saw Mark say 'what a good idea' my heart sank and I thought 'oh dear'...

Oh! wait! They did it back when the initial announcement was made

You really should get a subscription you know

If only I had enough time on my hands to be able to read it regularly, we don't all leave an easy life like you!

Anyway, I'd have thought you'd have mentioned it on here at the time!