to all football fans

[hatters1988]

as you may be aware my club Luton Town has been docked a massive 30 points in the past couple of weeks. people often talk about the fact that we have been in admin 3 times in the past 10 years which is true, however the circumstances causing the last 2 have been down to the fans, 3 years ago a bloke called John Gurney came and brought our club, came out with big promises such as building a new ground (which later in this season you will see we are in desperate need for) on stilts................and a formula 1 race track was to be incorporated...... as you may have guessed the bloke was a mentalist and it took a group of shrewd fans to get together and oust him, via putting the club into admin.
the most recent was due to a bunch of directors syphoning cash from the club (hands up who has heard of a club going into admin having sold in excess of £13million worth of players in the previous 18months) on the pretence that they were going to build a new ground which nobody wanted in the middle of green belt land in a village on the outskirts of the town.
Again it has taken a set of clever,wealthy and shrewd fans to rid ourselves of these people.

The FA/FL in their role as governing body pass people as "fit and proper" to run our clubs, on each of the past 2 occasions they have let us down, and it has been the fans that have tried to sort out the mess, unfortunately admin was the only way (although in November members of 2020 went to the current mob to try and buy the club, but they insisted on admin in the vain hope they would be able to but the club back on the cheap ala leeds and mr bates) and they'd have gotten away with it if it wasnt for those pesky kids.

sorry to bore you all, but i feel sometimes people need to see the bigger picture.

also, if you have a spare 2 mins, please sign this petition, as one day this could happen to your club.

ta for your time, and good luck for next season, am looking forward to a weekend at your place.

http://www.petitiononline.com/BeFairFL/petition.html

[Neil G]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 311178.ece

Football Leagues perspective on this at the link above plus the views of fans.

I didn't sign the petition because Luton breached regulations over payments to agents, Mike Newell blew the whistle about this in 2006 and after all his best players were sold off for 9 million the club sacked him because he was critical off them for not making any of that money available to him for new players. Luton have had 3 insolvencies in 10 years.

Fans I feel sorry for but cheats and money chasers I do not, it's pay back time and the fans suffer again but serious measures have to be taken for serious offenders and personally I back the leagues decision.

[heysham_mfc]

signed

[ftm]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article4311178.ece

Football Leagues perspective on this at the link above plus the views of fans.

I didn't sign the petition because Luton breached regulations over payments to agents, Mike Newell blew the whistle about this in 2006 and after all his best players were sold off for 9 million the club sacked him because he was critical off them for not making any of that money available to him for new players. Luton have had 3 insolvencies in 10 years.

Fans I feel sorry for but cheats and money chasers I do not, it's pay back time and the fans suffer again but serious measures have to be taken for serious offenders and personally I back the leagues decision.

agreed

[Christies Child]

It's the fans who always suffer and for that I feel very sorry. I'd hate it if I was in their position.

BUT rules are there for a purpose otherwise any club with the hint of financial problems could do what they liked and get away with it.

If you can't pay players or suppliers then you shouldn't be in business.

Therefore I can't sign.

[slackAlice]

Signed.

The teams/players at the top of the pile 'wallow' in money ; talk about the haves & have nots ! What about WET SHAM and their RULE BREACH ???
OK rules are rules and its just like a business but ...etc... but TRUE football fans know it doesn't feel like a business when you've got a real emotional attachment ; I don't feel the same about TESCO's or ASDA's as I do about MORECAMBE - the new men want to make a real go of things - a fresh start - they might never recover from this. No right of appeal neither , they had to sign that away. They were wrong - but the punishment is cruel and excessive IMO.
It only takes some 'greedy individuals' and it could happen at any club

They NEED to find ways of either preventing individuals running a club like this and/or PUNISHING them for such indiscretions.

[morecammouth]

Aren't there a couple of other teams awaiting the outcome of minus points like Bournemouth and Rotherham or have I got it wrong.

I do believe that the FA have decided to kick clubs and fans when they're down! But rules are rules! Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Enough cliches' (spelt wrong but you know what i mean) but I know the other clubs who have suffered at the hands of the FA would be annoyed if teams began to get away with the deductions.

MOOOOOOOORECAMBE!!!!

[campdave]

They NEED to find ways of either preventing individuals running a club like this and/or PUNISHING them for such indiscretions.

But the club must also be retrospectively punished - I know we always hark back, but look at Leeds - spunking loads of money on player after player and consequently overachieving, and therefore causing other teams playing by the rules to miss out on prize money and league position. That's why (in my opinion) clubs must be punished for going into administration.

Having a certain portion of debts wiped out gives the new owners advantages over other clubs round them with debt.

West Ham bending the rules and getting away with it shouldn't mean that other clubs do as well.

[dave wilky]

They NEED to find ways of either preventing individuals running a club like this and/or PUNISHING them for such indiscretions.

But the club must also be retrospectively punished - I know we always hark back, but look at Leeds - spunking loads of money on player after player and consequently overachieving, and therefore causing other teams playing by the rules to miss out on prize money and league position. That's why (in my opinion) clubs must be punished for going into administration.

Having a certain portion of debts wiped out gives the new owners advantages over other clubs round them with debt.

West Ham bending the rules and getting away with it shouldn't mean that other clubs do as well.

I await with baited breath the outcome of the continuing saga that is TEVEZ sheffield still moaning.....but then they had a tough final game of the season..so much harder than west ham.....All the had to do was beat WIGAN.... Where west ham had to beat man utd......
Can`t wait for MAN UTD To get fined or deducted points ... after all Tevez is still owned by Jorbichan (excuse spelling) therefore technically is on loan at man utd ....tevez is still owned by a third party........oh forgot man utd has immunity from such friviallitys



by the way petition signed

[P/T Indie]

I think the points deduction for the illegal payments is wrong very wrong as noone at the club now had anything to do with it and the people that did just got very small fines and a wrap on the knuckles and think it should be over turned howeve I agree with the points for going into admin.

[wijit]

Signed. If we don't support Luton on this we are just saying that the bigger clubs can do what they want, when they want without fear that their actions could send the club down. This is not the time for self-righteousness.

[campdave]

Signed. If we don't support Luton on this we are just saying that the bigger clubs can do what they want,

No one has said anything like that at all.

[Neil G]

This is not the time for self-righteousness

I don't think anyone here deserves the self-righteousness tag, most posters in the thread have expressed some empathy towards ordinary Luton fans whether the petition was signed or not.

[wijit]

But Neil, your first reply on this thread stinks of self-righteousness. "I didn't sign the petition because Luton breached regulations...." That was back then and with a different board. How far along history do we punish clubs before we should put it behind them. Had Luton benefitted from that I could understand it, but thirty points two years later is ridiculous. West Ham kept a Premier league place thanks to Tevez, there is no doubt at all about that. It was worth millions to them and their punishment was pathetic. There is still evidence that his registration is with a third party, but will we see any action against the mighty Man Yoo? Can't see it. If rules are broken then yes, punishment should be used but it should also be measured against the club.
You may not like the "self-righteous" tag, and if it upsets you I apologise, but that is what that sort of view is seen as. Empathy to their supporters means nothing. It doesn't help them.

Just to play devils' advocate, how about this; In 2016 it is found that we feilded an illegible player in the play-off final. We are subsequently relegated to the Northern Prem or whatever it's called then. Is that fair? Or, more inkeeping with this thread, same year we are found to have done what Luton did, would you say we deserve a thirty point deduction for something which happened 8 years earlier?

[campdave]

Empathy to their supporters means nothing. It doesn't help them.

What else can we offer if we agree with the punishment though?

I didn't see Leeds fans moaning about "the fans being punished" when their overspending saw them reach the semis of the Champions League.

[The Fury]

Also, it can certainly be argued that Leeds United are - and most definitely were - a 'big club'. By your sentiment, Wijit, surely Leeds would have escaped punishment because of their status? As it was, they suffered incredibly on the field, were made an example of and punished accordingly off it but subsequently managed to elevate themselves back to the Championship due to hard work and dedication.

Leeds may have set the defecit precedent in all this but they are also a decent model for clubs who have breached the rules and suffered the consequences.

[campdave]

but subsequently managed to elevate themselves back to the Championship due to hard work and dedication.

They haven't quite made it yet!

[Neil G]

But Neil, your first reply on this thread stinks of self-righteousness.

You're a bit opinion smelly yourself.

Empathy to their supporters means nothing. It doesn't help them.

Ok if you're playing hard ball, bollocks to 'em, they deserve it as well

[The Fury]

but subsequently managed to elevate themselves back to the Championship due to hard work and dedication.

They haven't quite made it yet!

Damn, I was sure they'd won the Playoff final. In fact, I was absolutely convinced, as I looked it up upon seeing your response, that they'd beaten Carlisle at Wembley. Oops.

Tragic, really, that I can't remember a game I watched a little over a month ago yet I have a perfect recollection of South Africa and Saudi Arabia drawing in their final group game of the 1998 World Cup.

[shrimper]

But Neil, your first reply on this thread stinks of self-righteousness. "I didn't sign the petition because Luton breached regulations...." That was back then and with a different board. How far along history do we punish clubs before we should put it behind them. Had Luton benefitted from that I could understand it, but thirty points two years later is ridiculous. West Ham kept a Premier league place thanks to Tevez, there is no doubt at all about that. It was worth millions to them and their punishment was pathetic. There is still evidence that his registration is with a third party, but will we see any action against the mighty Man Yoo? Can't see it. If rules are broken then yes, punishment should be used but it should also be measured against the club.
You may not like the "self-righteous" tag, and if it upsets you I apologise, but that is what that sort of view is seen as. Empathy to their supporters means nothing. It doesn't help them.

Just to play devils' advocate, how about this; In 2016 it is found that we feilded an illegible player in the play-off final. We are subsequently relegated to the Northern Prem or whatever it's called then. Is that fair? Or, more inkeeping with this thread, same year we are found to have done what Luton did, would you say we deserve a thirty point deduction for something which happened 8 years earlier?

Yes - if those are the rules and the rules are being properly applied.
I completely agree with the punishment Luton are getting.
No I wouldn't like it if it happened to us and everyone feels sympathy with the supporters and with the current board but I would have to respect the rules - made clear to everyone before any of these infringements were committed.
What isn't right and isn't fair is if it can ever be shown that the rules haven't been properly applied in other cases.
But it's THOSE cases that people should be getting up in arms about, not this one.

Let's campaign for the rules to be applied properly and even handedly in all cases, not accept that we should let punishment be somehow adjusted to the level of those who circumvent, bend and break the rules.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[DTSJim]

Luton's appeal to get the 10 points back failed just now so they look like they'll definitely start with a 30 point deficit.

[morecambe mick]

I cannot bring myself to sign a petition against something that I agree with.

I do truly feel so sorry for the fans of Luton and hope they mange to pull off what looks like an almost impossible task, and claw back these points, obviously not at our expense!

When the rules were broken they were aware that they were breaking the rules and continued anyway. Blatent rule breach, got to take the punishment.

"We are all absolutely flummuxed" Luton's M.P

Why? The precedent has been set. The writing was on the wall, when they punished Leeds.

The F.A has made its bed, they have to lie in it.
How much do they regret starting this off with Leeds Utd?


The point about other teams breaking the rules, this that exactly, a whole different point.
They should also be brought to book in my opinion.



Why did David Pleat say luton had to look to "....Morecambe and Accrington as examples"?

[Phoenix]

I'm not going to sign either for all of the reasons already given. I also think we don't do enough to punish those responsible personally, jail the lot of 'em. At it's lowest level it's theft, taking services you can't pay for. If the crimes didn't go un-punished then we could go out, spend a fortune on players we can't afford then when the bank cancels the loan, go bust, wipe the slate clean, set up a new football club taking over from the old one and do it all again.

For once think about the poor sods who aren't going to get paid thanks to Luton, companies that might go bust because of them, people like you and me that aren't going to get paid this month.

Yes, I feel sorry for the fans but the club needs punishing as does any company in the same situation. We're too soft on bankrupts.

[Wednesdayite]

I'm not going to sign either for all of the reasons already given. I also think we don't do enough to punish those responsible personally, jail the lot of 'em. At it's lowest level it's theft, taking services you can't pay for. If the crimes didn't go un-punished then we could go out, spend a fortune on players we can't afford then when the bank cancels the loan, go bust, wipe the slate clean, set up a new football club taking over from the old one and do it all again.

For once think about the poor sods who aren't going to get paid thanks to Luton, companies that might go bust because of them, people like you and me that aren't going to get paid this month.

Yes, I feel sorry for the fans but the club needs punishing as does any company in the same situation. We're too soft on bankrupts.

...and thats exactly how I feel too. Sorry for the fans who will ultimately lose out..but business is business

[Keith]

I'm afraid I'm another who feels dreadfully sorry for the fans when the club that they love is being screwed over or mismanaged. You look at how long it has taken Barrow to recover, Doncaster Rovers almost forced out of business, Scarborough going to the wall... the list is huge. I hope Luton survive. I expect that survival to begin in the Blue Square. I would hope that those concerned are never allowed near another football club.

But I'm sorry, I won't be signing the petition either because the alternative to punishment would be to encourage the wide boys in the future.