O/T We'll fight them on the prom

[morecambe mick]

I like this photo so much I thought I'd point it out to everyone

http://www.camsak.com/v/080703/CIMG0220.jpg.html

Un-touched colours from a pocket camera, sunshine & storms. This is the sort of view I like so much that instead of driving straight to work in Lancaster, I divert to the prom and drive from Broadway to Queen Street most mornings coming home the long way with the views dropping down into Slyne and then from Hest Bank to home.

Great photo, mate.

Well, this saved me from linking it Brian.

What is Peter Cross doing on the beach? Looking for empties

[sandgrown]

What I don't like to read are "The MBIs have done this" or "Labour have done that". I'd love to see politics kicked out of local councils. What I want is someone in power that will do what they said they would when I voted for them. Not someone who follows a party line. I'm sick & tired of the parties throwing mud at each other and we, the citizens of this amazing town, suffer because of their petty arguments and tit-for-tat decisions.

The only reason I mentioned the MBIs is that I have to make the point. If Evelyn was just Joan Public then she wouldn't be on the front of the paper. Instead she's the leader of a party that claims to want to do good for Morecambe but, in my view, has sent it backwards.

However, I'll say this for them at least they've got the balls to stand for election and try to make a difference. A certain Shrimpsvoicer is currently doing a good job as Chair of the Licensing Committee in difficult circumstances and I applaud him for giving it a go.

The problem is that there are far too many decision-makers, layers of government and people who lack either have the knowledge, passion, commitment, intelligence or contacts to make a difference.

Soon Morecambe's democratic (non-democratic structure) will be as follows:

Morecambe Town Council (could look after The Dome) - elected - let's say 30 unpaid people with no budget - are you going to really get the best for the town?

Lancaster City Council (looks after the car park outside The Dome) - about 20 out of 60 councillors each paid about £4,000 a year - again with very little meaningful power

Lancashire County Council (looks after the road outside The Dome) - about 3 from 90 councillors representing Morecambe - responsible for 90% of local spending yet I think most people would be hard-pressed to name their County Councillor or what they do.

UK Government (controls 2/3rds of budgets for the above) - 1 out 652 representing Morecambe - actually behind many of the decisions on a micro-level which improve our towns but in which our MP has no say at all. E.g. Sea defences, cycle routes, sea front premises grants etc. are all given to councils with little knowledge or say so from anyone.

I'd be happier with one powerful local authority with less but well-paid councillors who can execute decisions well. The government picks up the rest.

Thanks Posh, I appreciate the compliment, and just for the record, I too would have liked us to have got Unitary status.

[Phoenix]

So annoyed by Evelyn I might just add a bit more public debate to the discussion

http://www.mymorecambe.co.uk/

[scar]

Bloody hell, what a storm she's created with her little tirade at selling off of Morecambe's "Crown Jewels"!

Lets put a few things straight about the Midland here. Yes Urban Splash firstly wanted to get an outside Hotel company in to run the Hotel but none were able strike a deal with Urban Splash. Urban Splash Hotels is now running the Hotel and is looking at other buildings around the country to create more Hotels, including the Cincinati (spelling?) building in Birmingham which is claimed will be their next project.

Next the rumour that they will turn it in to flats. The money US have received from the various bodies has a tie in (7 years from memory) in which they cannot sell the Hotel. It is a listed building as well and as such change of use would not be given (it's been looked at before and refused point blank). So lets scotch that one right now.

Yes they got their thinking wrong and have adapted - they are now recruiting experienced staff to work in the Hotel and have employed the services of a well known and respected industry recruitment agency to do this for them. They are getting things right - slowly but none the less, they are going in the right direction!

Now - back to Evil-lynn She has her own ideas of Morecambe future and it seems to hark back to the Golden Days when day trippers arrived from Bratford (say it with the accent) and the prom and beaches were packed. Musicals and Comedy shows were on at the Winter Gardens and Pier theatres and there was a Punch & Judy show on each corner!

Unfortunately those days are long gone, Morecambe is seeing a resurgence of visitors (numbers are up this year on last), more people wanting accommodation - but expectations and desires have changed. Mondeo Man, turned in to BMW man and is now thinking he quite fancies becoming Auto Union Man - which means Morecambe has got to keep up. If that means a development on the promenade which encompases a more upmarket feel, boardwalks, boutique shops, cafe bar culture then so be it - it's what people want from a Sea-side resort now a days.

I can understand where she is coming from with the building of residential accommodation on the seaward side of the promenade, but's a sacrifice thats got to happen for the town to move forward.

[Phoenix]

Our Evelyn mnight have intended to kick up a storm but this storm is heading in the wrong direction. No one I've discussed this with so far agrees with her, they all want to see Urban Splash get what the council bribed them with to do up the Midland, promise of planning permission on the promenade. Anything less will see the end of investment in this town and all Evelyn will have left is her beloved Arndale.

Well put scar.

[church of england]

i honestly thought you lot were advocating violence between the tower and the pleasure beach!

[halfwayliner]

The Midland is a good landmark,the view is excellent and should make a good hotel.But please get it painted properly, cleaned and the lighting sorted out.I for one also hope no one builds anymore large structures on that side of the road.

[Phoenix]

The point is that there isn't a view unless you walk on the shore side of the promenade i.e. around the back of the Dome. No one's arguing that view is there to stay.

Here's another view the council gave us

http://www.camsak.com/v/morecambe/DSC08710.jpg.html

[halfwayliner]

I am saying it only needs one large building on that side and that it is the town side that needs a lot of regeneration,

[Phoenix]

The problem is Urban Splash brought the Midland back from the dead with a promise from the council that they could build on the promenade. The Midland is what you could call a loss-leader, pour money into the Midland knowing the real cash-cow are the flats. So they open the Midland and then our council question the decision to build on the promenade. That's the kick in the teeth Urban Splash don't deserve and the killer for any future investment in our town.

Sometimes we wander along the promenade and the view across the Bay stops us noticing some other rather impressive buildings. These two links take you to a couple of photos I took tonight. If you can resist the temptation, click the links before you scroll down to see what the buildings are

http://www.camsak.com/v/morecambe/DSC08746.jpg.html

http://www.camsak.com/v/morecambe/DSC08747.jpg.html




























Behind the palms you have Woolworths and above the hedge is Hitchens!

[BHmfc]

Let US build the apartments/shops/offices, as long as we are not talking skyscrapers, and then with people living there 12 months of the year needing cafes, bars, shops, etc, watch Morecambe really take off. We are no longer a seaside resort, let's make it a top place to live. EA and her friends are decades behind the times, for years they have banged on about the WG and yet it is still a shell, US, thank god, came along 3 years ago and delivered on their promises.

[maggy]

500 flats /bedsits and a hotel are a bit too much for the prom. They had just built a new block of flats were the groverner hotel stood and some of them are up for sale and to let. The old bus depot has houses that have not been sold yet. On Fairfield road they have not all been sold yet.
Then in the west end adactus have just converted several bedsits and hmo to make luxury flats and they are still waiting to be to be sold.
Yet the council say no more bedsits/hmo in the west end and poulton then what do they do allow urban splash to build 500 flats and bedsits.
If they are not sold what will they do allow them to be rented or to let like the groverner is now.
Or bring back all the ones who have been kicked out from the rundown bedsits that the council compulsory purchased and sold to housing associatons
what about the housing company on the key who has just pulled out.
look at bovis homes and redrow they have had to cut their staff down because of the crunch in the market

[Keith]

Maggy, you don't suppose that perhaps Urban Splash might know what they are doing? If they didn't think they could sell up market housing in Morecambe, they probably wouldn't want to build them?

Morecambe needs to move upscale and developments like the one proposed is a good start... Oh hang on... The Midland Hotel was a good start, this could be the next stage...

[BHmfc]

Maggy, i understand your fears but this is US we are talking about, they have developments in most of the major cities in the UK, they have won award after award and most importantly they have all the contacts to achieve what they set out to do, unlike certain parties in M/C who talk and object but achieve nothing.

[Phoenix]

Maggy, the new flats on sandylands I saw one for sale last night. When the old bus depot is finished they might have a better chance of selling them, at the moment you'll notice they are just plot numbers for sale. When I moved onto the crowther homes estate off Broadway 12 years ago, it took 2 more years before the last house was sold so as far as people not snapping up every house on a new develpment is concerned, nothing has changed.

Goes back to what I keep saying, US have aleady been told they'll be able to develop flats on the prom if they want to. Reverse that decision and it's RIP Morecambe.

[maggy]

urban splash may have done lots of work but most have been funded.
Would urban splash have done this without the funding from the NWDA or HLF
Urban splash have had the help from NWDA paying £4 M US contributed £2.5m and the heritage lottery funded £600,000
You don’t see the NWDA help fund any of our local building firms. How many local firms helped with the refurbishment or was it all outside contractors.
I walked past the midland the day before it opened and there were over 70 vehicles outside I would say from the advertisement on those vehicles 80% were not local contractors.

[Phoenix]

I never said it was all US money BUT you have to ask why did no one else bother to do what US did? If all that money was available, why was the hotel left derelict for so long? Why didn't a local have the nerve to put the funding together? Why didn't the council even?

Neither was there a requirement for work to be local. They would have put the jobs out to tender and got the best value for their money. It's our problem few locals were able to be part of the project.

[maggy]

But was the funding available to anybody else?
When they bought the midland they said they would use local company and help employment in the district.

[campdave]

I walked past the midland the day before it opened and there were over 70 vehicles outside I would say from the advertisement on those vehicles 80% were not local contractors.

Given the massive amount of labour needed in the few days before it actually opened, I'm not surprised all of it wasn't local.

[Freez]

Some people will find fault with anything that is done in this town, that's the nature of people.

There is always a negative angle to progress, it could be funding, it could be labour, you can make it whatever you want if you look at things with a "glass half empty" mentality. That is not to say that we should all go along with every new idea that appears with a cheery "it will be fine" attitude, far from it.
The criticism of the Midland is in my view a little churlish and also way too soon. The hotel could hopefully provide a lasting legacy, one which has already kick started a resurgence of interest in our sleepy seaside town


While I agree in principle with the notion of Luxury Apartments (or for those who prefer it the less flattering 'flats/bedsits' description) coupled with bars/cafe's and shops replacing the current rotting Harbour Band Arena, it would be good to find out more.
Even if the project does not happen it would be foolish to discount it this early stage following a few ill informed or bias comments.

There will always be a few who denigrate and complain, the silent majority must see to it that their views are heard and taken into account.

A positive future for Morecambe is in the balance with these proposed plans, it is crucial that the correct decision is made regardless of political persuasion or personal feelings.

If this development increases the number of quality homes, shops and bars and therefore improves the look of the town, it can only benefit all of us, residents and visitors alike.

[Mark S]

I have a mate (local born and bred) who is a plumber and he has just had 12 months out of the Midland refurb.

He took me on a tour a couple of weeks ago and all I can say is that if you ever have the spare money for the penthouse suite, book it. Fantastic.

The hotel is fantastic, and has been lovingly done to superb detail. I have been astounded at the number of people who have tried to knock it. Most from my observations have had a particular axe to grind when they havent had their arse kissed. Wayne Hemmingway should mind his own business- he doesnt even come from here really- and the Archer woman should either get The Winter Gardens sorted for once and for all or hand it over to professionals like Urban Splash who know how to get funding and how to get the job done. She is dangerous! She is obsessed with one thing and one thing only and is an attention seeker.

My controversial view is that after the fantastic job they have done in Morecambe so far at the Midland, Urban Splash should be given the keys to the Town and given carte blanche to do what they want with 100% backing and trust.

They would transform the town into the 21st century and attract more people to the area and make it a Town we can all be proud to live in and shout about.

Give them whatever they want and let them get on with it, but the deal must be that they sort out the eyesore that was the fairground first!

[maggy]

i have not said i was against it i said 500 flats /bedsits and a hotel are a bit too much for the prom

[shrimper]

I'm happy to let the debate take its course on this one.
I can understand many of the concerns that people have - and that's right. We all care about our town.
I hope that people can talk to each other and, perhaps, come to some compromise that most (you'll never please everyone) can accept because I think most of us agree that 'some' kind of new influx of facilities and 'money' is vital in Morecambe if we are to progress as a place to visit, live and work.
If, at the end of all this, Urban Splash are told 'thanks but no thanks' then that's democracy - fair enough.

I certainly agree with phoenix on the 'view' aspect (as I've said this week in the paper). If I wanted to show a visitor our glorious bay panorama then the site we're talking about is probably the last place on the seafront I'd choose. I wonder if the old Morecambe Council got the same 'don't spoil the view' argument when they proposed building the old band arena, with its high opaque glass walls, and the concrete Super Swimming Stadium on that exact same site. Not several storeys high (and that might be the 'compromise' I'm talking about) but you only need it to be at your eyeline to block your view.
If you live above Rita's Cafe or you want to develop a first floor restaurant at the Winter Gardens then I can fully understand a personal viewpoint about this aspect.
But for the rest of us, there really isn't much of a view to spoil - I'd strongly urge anyone to take a walk down there - as phoenix did - to see for themselves. And remember the promenade on the seaward side of the old Bubbles fences is NOT under any threat of development - that would still be fully accessible.

To address a couple of points. No-one in their right minds would have given a penny of public money to a couple of the previous owners of the Midland. One tried to strip out and sell all its fittings, another has since been before the courts on a number of occasions.
And local companies did look at buying the place but the 'renovation - versus - payback from income' figures didn't stack up.
They could have sought grants and, who knows, if they could have persuaded funding bodies that they had the business acumen and development experience to make a go of it, they may have been successful.
But that process, as far as I'm aware, never happened. Then Tom Bloxham of Urban Splash (who has a reputation for revitalising 'no-hope' buildings in areas far worse than the lovely Morecambe and completely turning around the fortunes of those areas) indicated to Bryan Gray of the NW Development Agency that it may be a project he would be interested in taking on and the rest stemmed from that.
On the contracting, a lot of workers did come from outside but a lot of local contractors were -and still are - employed as well.
I think everyone wants the best for Morecambe out of this - there is just a disagreement about how to achieve that.

[bigreddog]

You're right to look for compromise shrimper and I agree with what you said in town crier this week. I suspect the fear from some people at the moment is that there are way too many nay sayers associated with the town who pretend to be Morecambe's best friends, but who are in fact Morecambe's worst enemies. I'm afraid Mrs Archer and her merry band of ludites are at the forefront of a very dangerous undercurrent of political resistance around here. She and many of her colleagues have been duly and democratically elected and are entitled to their opinions, but can they please tell us what they are in favour of? all I hear from them is the thatcheresque "NO,NO,NO!" They were against the M6 Link, against shared equity housing on St John's Road, against the prom development, kicked up a storm over the football ground move and the development at lordesome. They may well have a valid point to make sometimes, but with all the constant nay saying they just appear to be barking at the moon and not actually doing anything positive. But the people locally did elect them. so if they force urban splash away it will simply be a matter of you reap what you sow.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that though.

[Posh]

You're right to look for compromise shrimper and I agree with what you said in town crier this week. I suspect the fear from some people at the moment is that there are way too many nay sayers associated with the town who pretend to be Morecambe's best friends, but who are in fact Morecambe's worst enemies. I'm afraid Mrs Archer and her merry band of ludites are at the forefront of a very dangerous undercurrent of political resistance around here. She and many of her colleagues have been duly and democratically elected and are entitled to their opinions, but can they please tell us what they are in favour of? all I hear from them is the thatcheresque "NO,NO,NO!" They were against the M6 Link, against shared equity housing on St John's Road, against the prom development, kicked up a storm over the football ground move and the development at lordesome. They may well have a valid point to make sometimes, but with all the constant nay saying they just appear to be barking at the moon and not actually doing anything positive. But the people locally did elect them. so if they force urban splash away it will simply be a matter of you reap what you sow.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that though.

Well said. I asked a former MBI councillor what they had actually achieved in Morecambe during their four years in power as the major political party. The silence was deafening.

Morecambe needs ideas, imagination and most of all delivery. Saying no isn't progress, saying its Lancaster's fault isn't progress, its actually what's holding us back.