Worrying stats

[Ned]

Look beyond the spin about us being unbeaten for a number of games and consider the league stats that record 1 win in 20 league games! In anybody's language that is nailed on relegation form and despite our battling efforts we are hanging on (so too are Accrington who's fans are talking about relegation). Chesterfield are on a bad run and many of their fans half expected us to turn them over but again an opportunity against a poor side has gone begging. Why? for that answer you need to listen to the Bury FC manager who has some interesting views on success and failure in Div.2. He states that there are a number of teams including his own who have no money to spend and have to rely on the free market. From this market the clubs in question have to gamble on the signings and this is were the manager's experience and/or expertise comes in as many of these free signings do not work out whilst others do. It soon becomes obvious whether the manager has got it right or not but by that time it is too late as you are stuck with the players.
There may well be some truth in his words for if you look at Sammy's new signings you have got to believe that Carr, Mcann, Parish and O'carrol are consistently no better than average Conference players. Over to you Sammy.

[Shrimpsscene]

Worrying I suppose for Chesterfield as Jack Lester is reputed to be on £2500 per week
27 goals in the league last year is not a bad return for a player who cost the club around £130000 last year he had two great chances to score today I wouldnt be too happy if I was Lee Richardson
Bury...received good money for Nicky Adams and the David Nugent deal add ons.........they should get £1million in total from the Nugent deal and dont tell me Andy Morrell is on peanuts
Bury have money as do quite a few clubs in this league
do me a favour and before you come on here with more diatribe get your facts right

[Vinny]

I'm dead appy. Sammy has also signed Rene Howe, Neil Wainwright, Barry Roche, Aaron Taylor and rightly has confidence in all the players who have renewed their contracts. Look at where we were 2 or 3 or 4 etc seasons ago and where we are now - Football League "and 'avin' a laugh" and that's not spin. Neg off Ned

[durhamshrimp]

DONT BITE!!!!!!!

HE'LL GO AWAY IF YOU DON'T BITE!

[admiral47]

I'm with ned on this one- think the signings mentioned are not up to the standard in this league. Up until this this year the team was largely Jimmy Harvey's squad. We are certainly not as good as the team that got us into this league. I to think we are in for a close fight at the bottom

[Number 1]

Ned's problem is that whilst he is correct in certain circumstances, he overeggs his point. It's true to say that 1 win in 20 is shocking, and it is. Trouble is, Ned then goes on to attack certain players and criticises the manager for signing said players which is out of order really when you consider the facts. I mean, O'Carroll looks a decent player to me, and came from Celtic, so you couldn't really have much of a better recommendation could you? Wainwright and Roche are established League 2 players, and also look ok to me. Everyone would agree that Michael Carr was a risk, but so was Carl Baker. Some you win some you lose.

Bury have plenty of cash as Shrimpscene pointed out. So do others, and as far as competition with other teams goes in getting players, we have to face facts and accept that our location, relative standing in the league in terms of history and our very poor ground and facilities (i.e. none) all have an effect when trying to entice players here. We're handicapped by the salary cap which is representative of our turnover, so whilst we continue to get piss poor attendancies and our turnover remains very small, we can't go paying high wages, even if we wanted to. As a consequence, we can only get a certain grade of player. It's a vicious circle, and Ned seems to think that we should go out and get the best players in League 2 when it's not as easy as that. For example, Michael Boulding, Peter Thorne, Andy Morrell, etc. Now if we were in the new stadium and had a higher turnover, maybe they'd come here, and maybe we could pay the wages, but as it stands, there's no chance.

We're even struggling to bring in young loan players from Premier League clubs and I'm certain that this is because of our lack of facilities for said players. They don't want highly rated players training on quagmires or astroturf when the option is a club with better facilities.

We have to face facts Ned, and accept that we are where we are because of more than just forces on the football field. The whole infrastructure has to change before we can start bidding for the best League 2 has to offer, and to be fair, Ned isn't the only one who has the same simplistic view that we should be able to go out and get better players. At the moment it's about survival until the new facilities come to fruition. Then we can improve our income, pay more, have better facilities for incoming players and become a more attractive proposition. Staying up this year will be success.

[ezz]

Ned's problem is that whilst he is correct in certain circumstances, he overeggs his point. It's true to say that 1 win in 20 is shocking, and it is. Trouble is, Ned then goes on to attack certain players and criticises the manager for signing said players which is out of order really when you consider the facts. I mean, O'Carroll looks a decent player to me, and came from Celtic, so you couldn't really have much of a better recommendation could you? Wainwright and Roche are established League 2 players, and also look ok to me. Everyone would agree that Michael Carr was a risk, but so was Carl Baker. Some you win some you lose.

Bury have plenty of cash as Shrimpscene pointed out. So do others, and as far as competition with other teams goes in getting players, we have to face facts and accept that our location, relative standing in the league in terms of history and our very poor ground and facilities (i.e. none) all have an effect when trying to entice players here. We're handicapped by the salary cap which is representative of our turnover, so whilst we continue to get piss poor attendancies and our turnover remains very small, we can't go paying high wages, even if we wanted to. As a consequence, we can only get a certain grade of player. It's a vicious circle, and Ned seems to think that we should go out and get the best players in League 2 when it's not as easy as that. For example, Michael Boulding, Peter Thorne, Andy Morrell, etc. Now if we were in the new stadium and had a higher turnover, maybe they'd come here, and maybe we could pay the wages, but as it stands, there's no chance.

We're even struggling to bring in young loan players from Premier League clubs and I'm certain that this is because of our lack of facilities for said players. They don't want highly rated players training on quagmires or astroturf when the option is a club with better facilities.

We have to face facts Ned, and accept that we are where we are because of more than just forces on the football field. The whole infrastructure has to change before we can start bidding for the best League 2 has to offer, and to be fair, Ned isn't the only one who has the same simplistic view that we should be able to go out and get better players. At the moment it's about survival until the new facilities come to fruition. Then we can improve our income, pay more, have better facilities for incoming players and become a more attractive proposition. Staying up this year will be success.

Finally a sane constructive point!!

[Keith]

Very well said number 1. A great example of how to respond positively, constructively and without becoming personal.

And a correct assessment too!

[morecambe mick]

Very well said number 1. A great example of how to respond positively, constructively and without becoming personal.

And a correct assessment too!

What an arse

Brown-noser

[Dazzer]

Yes, I agree, excellent post by Number 1

I give myself a reality check evry sunday morning by having a glance down all the attendances for the games in League 2 and the Blue square (Oxford Utd 4 and a half thousand for a tuesday night game week before last! - and they are languishing in the bottom third of the Blue Square) It's then that I realise that even at 17th in League 2, you have to say we are small club punching above our weight.

[campdave]

Also going to give number 1 a bit of bum licking for an excellent post

[shrimper]

My only issue with any of the original post is that there is a veiled inference that we 'should' be doing better than we are. We 'should' be attracting better players and we 'should' be beating 'teams like Chesterfield'.

That is nonsense. We are what we are - and we are STILL punching above what our history and our crowds say 'should' be our level.

Nothing wrong with wanting to be better but no-one should be 'expecting' it.

[Mighty Red]

A great example of how to respond positively, constructively and without becoming personal.

I'm with Keith on this one.
Tosser.

[Number 1]

Thanks for you kind comments about my post. Mods, I take it it was better than the photo of a turd that was removed last time I responded to Neds thread?

[cultured]

Look beyond the spin about us being unbeaten for a number of games and consider the league stats that record 1 win in 20 league games! In anybody's language that is nailed on relegation form and despite our battling efforts we are hanging on (so too are Accrington who's fans are talking about relegation). Chesterfield are on a bad run and many of their fans half expected us to turn them over but again an opportunity against a poor side has gone begging. Why? for that answer you need to listen to the Bury FC manager who has some interesting views on success and failure in Div.2. He states that there are a number of teams including his own who have no money to spend and have to rely on the free market. From this market the clubs in question have to gamble on the signings and this is were the manager's experience and/or expertise comes in as many of these free signings do not work out whilst others do. It soon becomes obvious whether the manager has got it right or not but by that time it is too late as you are stuck with the players.
There may well be some truth in his words for if you look at Sammy's new signings you have got to believe that Carr, Mcann, Parish and O'carrol are consistently no better than average Conference players. Over to you Sammy.

And the alternatives are?

Rene Howe (albeit on loan) from what I've seen of him, is at least a League One striker.

I also note that we appear to playing some youth players now. I thought that Sammy merely continued playing Dad's army?

[Christies Child]

Look beyond the spin about us being unbeaten for a number of games and consider the league stats that record 1 win in 20 league games! In anybody's language that is nailed on relegation form and despite our battling efforts we are hanging on (so too are Accrington who's fans are talking about relegation). Chesterfield are on a bad run and many of their fans half expected us to turn them over but again an opportunity against a poor side has gone begging. Why? for that answer you need to listen to the Bury FC manager who has some interesting views on success and failure in Div.2. He states that there are a number of teams including his own who have no money to spend and have to rely on the free market. From this market the clubs in question have to gamble on the signings and this is were the manager's experience and/or expertise comes in as many of these free signings do not work out whilst others do. It soon becomes obvious whether the manager has got it right or not but by that time it is too late as you are stuck with the players.
There may well be some truth in his words for if you look at Sammy's new signings you have got to believe that Carr, Mcann, Parish and O'carrol are consistently no better than average Conference players. Over to you Sammy.

And the alternatives are?

Rene Howe (albeit on loan) from what I've seen of him, is at least a League One striker.

I also note that we appear to playing some youth players now. I thought that Sammy merely continued playing Dad's army?

Youth players?

To date only Taylor has had a look in.

I don't class Scott or Lloyd as youth players.

[Wednesdayite]

To be fair, as one of the more neutral morecambe supporters here, I think ned has a point,especially with the 1 win in 20 scenario. The confidence drains out of players and then the 'where does the next win' mentality seeps in. I dont think morecambe 'should ' be beating chesterfield, but this time last year at least they 'could' !

could be a long old season this one....

[ezz]

I think this season will last pretty much the exact same time as last season did....give or take a day or 2.

[P/T Indie]

[quote="Wednesdayite"]To be fair, as one of the more neutral morecambe supporters here, I think ned has a point,especially with the 1 win in 20 scenario. The confidence drains out of players and then the 'where does the next win' mentality seeps in. I dont think morecambe 'should ' be beating chesterfield, but this time last year at least they 'could' !

Very good point Wensdayite.

The worrying thing is we have drawn against the 3 worst teams in the league recently surley you have to be looking at getting 3 points from some of those games especially the home game (Grimsby) instead we were lucky to get a draw.

I agree that the team is not as good as in previous years but you can't do anything about loosing Baker and Thommo the thing is we haven't really replaced them and we have no creative players in the team. If this was on purpose to make us more robust who knows and it is something I would question. If we just couldn't find replacements then fair enough as it is very hard to find players like them two and it was always going to be hard to adjust to life without them. Apart from O'caroll & Howe I would say all the other players we have brought in are pretty much like for like the ones we let go. I wouldnt say they have made the squad weaker but they haven't added anything extra to it.

Regarding the Bury comments it is true look how Hereford got out of the league by been very shrewd in the loan market. Obviously at this level it is all about wheeling and dealing and finding the odd gem eg Baker but everyone already knew that.

[marky No.1]

[Very good point Wensdayite.

Regarding the Bury comments it is true look how Hereford got out of the league by been very shrewd in the loan market. Obviously at this level it is all about wheeling and dealing and finding the odd gem eg Baker but everyone already knew that.

Yeah Hereford got out of it in fine fashion (owner/manager) but look where they are now. You need to do this stuff gradually or else your bubble bursts very quickly and you drop like a stone. Leave the people in charge to get on with it

Yes it will be a long hard season, nobody doubts that, but it will keep interest going further into the spring rather than a sudden halt in March when boredom seemed to set in last season

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 641755.stm

[SkinnyShrimp]

It is also worrying to see we had the lowest league 2 attendance on Saturday so the lack of progress on the field is starting to affect attendances which will have a knock on affect on finances and the ability to buy higher quality, more expensive players.
I find it really disappointing that crowds have dropped so much so quickly and hope that a few good results brings back the confidence we had last season and some of the fans who appear to have deserted the club.

This side is good enough to finish in the top half of the table and I think one good win will bring that all important confidence back and we will be up around where we finished last season which I don't care what anyone says is still a positive result and something the club should be proud of.

Here's hoping it starts on Saturday at Gillingham - I demand the 3 points for my £22!!!

[Mr Munnings]

As a regular viewer of The Big League Weekend 1 and 2 on Sky Sports
Has anyone else noticed that the crest on the wall next to presenter George Gavin and the guests always proudly displays the Morecambe Crest in full view?
Says it all really.............
League Two and staying here.............

[marky No.1]

It is also worrying to see we had the lowest league 2 attendance on Saturday

Don't worry Accrington and Dagenham are at home this weekend ~ and it was rather wet

[shrimper]

As a regular viewer of The Big League Weekend 1 and 2 on Sky Sports
Has anyone else noticed that the crest on the wall next to presenter George Gavin and the guests always proudly displays the Morecambe Crest in full view?
Says it all really.............
League Two and staying here.............

Yep - a few of us were talking about that the other day. My Little 'uns spotted it last night, just before they showed the clips of our goals.
Rene Howe's knee-slide celebration then prompted my 3-year-old to shout 'that's cool' and get a carpet burn on her knee mimicking him. The 4-year-old showed touching sympathy for her sister, running round the room chanting "Rene Howe, Rene Howe, Rene Howe, Howe, Howe!"*

(*William Tell Overture theme).

[ezz]

I'm telling you a home win against Stanley in the next couple of weeks and its onwards to promotion