Sammy 3 job offers already!

[heysham_mfc]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 60,00.html

[Posh]

Errr...had three phone calls. Hardly job offers.

The most telling part of the piece is the final line:

"I'd taken the club as far as I could."

Is it me or do I get the sense that he blames the club for that and not himself (earlier he blames pre-season)?

[Sammy h]

When has he ever took responsibility and admitted he was wrong?

His interviews after every game was always the same, blaming others and not taking responsibility. It is one of the few things I won't miss now he has gone.

Sometimes a manager has to come out and say "I got it wrong".

[mrpotatohead]

no no no, you are so wrong, the best assembled MFC squad of all time, gave their all, and pre season screwed it, enjoy the rest sammy, come back to footy and take a little team up a level, but do not patronise us, the MFC board gave you a big squad and you never delivered simple, I hope jim does well but he is hampered by your screw ups, sammy wanted the fleetwood job, and is now sulking, if i was mark lillis i would distance myself and also look for a new challenge, 3 job offers, yeah right.

[Christies Child]

I just hope that wherever he goes that they are as free with cash for both contractual and loan players as has been the case with us.

[P/T Indie]

Ok so pre season wasn't great and could explain a bad start to the season I will even give the benefit of the doubt and say up until Xmas but after Xmas you can't use its an excuse anymore. You can't say we got beat 7v2 in April because we had a bad pre season.

If his squad was so good why has Jimbo had to release nine players

He prob is blaming the club for the taking it as far as he can as he has been told he will be getting a reduced playing budget this year and imagine his face if he was told he had to have a squad of 19

To be fair I do think 19 might leave us short I think it should be 21/22 giving you cover in every position.

[Shrimpy]

If his squad was so good why has Jimbo had to release nine players

That figure would likely be higher too if certain individuals weren't given 2 year contracts by Mr McIlroy.

[shrimper]

...or it could be that he’s just being very honest and honourable.
He has his own ideas and his own way of working, his own recruitment policy and methods.
Perhaps he looked at the squad, looked at what HE would need to do, using HIS policy and methods, to significantly improve the team next season.
Perhaps he spoke to the chairman about his thoughts, about how much the club was prepared to invest and, weighing up the whole situation, decided HE couldn’t be sure of bringing about a significant improvement.
And maybe he thought that a different manager, with a different approach, MAY be able to do what he couldn’t.
So it may have been genuinely ‘mutual consent’ and genuinely a case of having ‘taken us as far as HE can’ – two footballing clichés I usually mistrust.

Sammy could well now go on to great success at another club (I had thought Fleetwood might be that kind of club) with slightly different immediate requirements and where his approach is entirely suitable - as it was when we were needing someone to get us promoted and then establish our position in the League.

WE, however, are in a different phase now.
We need someone to completely overhaul a squad, start to re-establish a structured youth policy and get out and spot emerging talent hungry for a chance to prove themselves in the League.

As I’ve said elsewhere, I think Jim Harvey was exactly the right person to build the foundations that completely re-shaped and established us as a ‘proper’ football club capable of significant progress.

Sammy and Mark were precisely what we needed when he came and for those years after.
I believe the management set up we have now appointed is exactly the ‘type’ of team we need to tackle the new job that faces us.

Whether the individuals turn out to be capable of carrying out that task successfully remains to be seen - but I have faith that they will.

And I thank Sammy and Mark for the superb job they did for us and for bringing us some of the greatest memories we’ll ever have as supporters of Morecambe FC.
I wish them well in whatever lies ahead.

[Posh]

So basically he wanted to blow even more money on expensive 'proven' players who may or may not have been watched and who may or not work out. The Chairman rightly, after three years of signings littered with poor players the vast majority of whom are no longer with the club, has said no. Sammy has then walked out as he needs the big money signings to improve, as its his only strategy. It could be argued that improving a club isn't just about money but better training methods, better planning, hard work, lots of scouting and finding players with commitment and the right ethos and work ethic. We'll get that with Jim and we'll begin the process of putting the foundations back under the football team and club, which I reckon have been broken down under Sammy. Thanks for everything Sammy but I'm glad you acknowledge you had taken us as far as you can.

[RedRedWine1]

Well put Shrimper, great post. Let's move on and stay away from an unjust backhand at the man who has proven to be the most successful manager the club has ever had. Perhaps the biggest mistake the club made last season was letting Duffy go, as after he left we went into freefall.

Just because Sammy never tapped certain people on the bonse, or gazed into their eyes, it didn't make him a bad manager. A good job he came initially though, otherwise his critics would still be tupping-up with Harvey in the conference. Personally, I think a few people never wanted Sammy here, a point which he was lambasted for even though it was clearly evident.

The King is dead, arise Sir Jimbo.

[ezz]

So basically he wanted to blow even more money on expensive 'proven' players who may or may not have been watched and who may or not work out. The Chairman rightly, after three years of signings littered with poor players the vast majority of whom are no longer with the club, has said no. Sammy has then walked out as he needs the big money signings to improve, as its his only strategy. It could be argued that improving a club isn't just about money but better training methods, better planning, hard work, lots of scouting and finding players with commitment and the right ethos and work ethic. We'll get that with Jim and we'll begin the process of putting the foundations back under the football team and club, which I reckon have been broken down under Sammy. Thanks for everything Sammy but I'm glad you acknowledge you had taken us as far as you can.

9/10 times, it is money that is needed to succeed. Are you saynig that if Jim doesn't spend any money he's going to bring in talented players better than what we have?

Is that a fact? The chairman offered Sammy a new contract according to most reports? Nowhere does Sammy say I left because I wont get enough money.

[Morecambe Jack]

No offense Posh but I am sick of reading your bile towards Sammy - your turning into CC trying to find flaws in everything Sammy says and making ridiculous assumptions from them. The Chairman has spoken about his utmost respect for Sammy McIlroy and everything points to him wanting him to stay, initially. Sammy has decided to leave and that is that.

Can we just appreciate what Sammy did for us and move on to the Bentley era with everyone united behind the new team.

[Posh]

9/10 times, it is money that is needed to succeed. Are you saynig that if Jim doesn't spend any money he's going to bring in talented players better than what we have?

I'm obviously not saying that because every manager has to spend money because players don't play for free. I'm saying two things. Firstly don't waste money. We've had a lot of players who don't work out who cost a lot in signing on fees (including loan fees) and salary - Moss, Capaldi it's a long list and as part of a large squad. We could pay the same average salary (even raise it) and still be better off my having a more effective squad. Secondly managers like Still, Coleman, Knill, Howe and others prove the value of good buying in the lower leagues and getting good results. The other thing is keeping them or getting good transfer fees when selling allowing us to spend more. So yes it can be done.

Is that a fact? The chairman offered Sammy a new contract according to most reports? Nowhere does Sammy say I left because I wont get enough money.

No it's not a fact but it is an educated understanding. Sammy offered to resign earlier last season. Why? It's odd to offer to resign particularly as he's turned it around in the past. My assumption was Sammy wanted to be backed in the transfer market and wasn't. By his own comments he wasn't doing a bad job so why resign? Additionally the terms of the contract i.e. a reduced budget may not have been acceptable to Sammy and hence no agreement.

[Posh]

No offense Posh but I am sick of reading your bile towards Sammy - your turning into CC trying to find flaws in everything Sammy says and making ridiculous assumptions from them. The Chairman has spoken about his utmost respect for Sammy McIlroy and everything points to him wanting him to stay, initially. Sammy has decided to leave and that is that.

Can we just appreciate what Sammy did for us and move on to the Bentley era with everyone united behind the new team.

I refute the point about ridiculous assumptions and spouting bile. I've tried to make concrete comments at every stage, the fact you don't like them isn't a reason to slag them off. If you had read what I've said elsewhere I'm very grateful to Sammy and Mark for taking a very good side and getting us into the league, I'm grateful for beating Preston, Wolves and more, grateful for many other things too. I've made my points so more than happy to move on to, hopefully to better football and better times.

[Sammy h]

There are unpolished diamonds out there, we just have to find them.

Was it Ferguson who signed Boyd and Mackail-Smith? Look at them two now!

[Christies Child]

No offense Posh but I am sick of reading your bile towards Sammy - your turning into CC trying to find flaws in everything Sammy says and making ridiculous assumptions from them. The Chairman has spoken about his utmost respect for Sammy McIlroy and everything points to him wanting him to stay, initially. Sammy has decided to leave and that is that.

Can we just appreciate what Sammy did for us and move on to the Bentley era with everyone united behind the new team.

God forbid.........!!!!!!!

One's enough.....

[ezz]

No offense Posh but I am sick of reading your bile towards Sammy - your turning into CC trying to find flaws in everything Sammy says and making ridiculous assumptions from them. The Chairman has spoken about his utmost respect for Sammy McIlroy and everything points to him wanting him to stay, initially. Sammy has decided to leave and that is that.

Can we just appreciate what Sammy did for us and move on to the Bentley era with everyone united behind the new team.

I refute the point about ridiculous assumptions and spouting bile. I've tried to make concrete comments at every stage, the fact you don't like them isn't a reason to slag them off. If you had read what I've said elsewhere I'm very grateful to Sammy and Mark for taking a very good side and getting us into the league, I'm grateful for beating Preston, Wolves and more, grateful for many other things too. I've made my points so more than happy to move on to, hopefully to better football and better times.

How is an assumption a concrete comment? Why would you think Jim, who's never manager before can spot talent and spend money better than Sammy? According to Sammy he said he felt he's taken the club as far as he can, not I need a lot of money or I'm useless and will therefore leave.
Your personal opinion of Sammy has moulded a poor assumption with no evidence at all. So in a way it is a ridiculous assumption and the way you posted it was pretty bitter too.

[Christies Child]

Sammy was quite open in his need for 'investment in the team' which suggests to me that he expected further monies to give him the ability to go out into the transfer market and to bring even more players on board.

It's obvious from the AGM that extra money was not going to be made available and as a result it was doubtful that he would be allowed to wheel and deal. Maybe there lies a clue as to one of the reasons for his departure.

His dealings in the transfer market have been mixed, as has his loanee success.

For me. the appointment of Jimbo is a fresh beginning and the way forward although it will not be the smooth ride that a lot are assuming.

[morecambegeek]

There's a hell of a lot of assuming going on in this thread. Whilst they may be correct, unless they are party to private conversations, assumptions is all they'll ever be.

[stevanshrimp]

For me. the appointment of Jimbo is a fresh beginning and the way forward although it will not be the smooth ride that a lot are assuming.

I don't think with the posts on this forum are assuming instant success, or a smooth ride.

What we have got is someone that i think everyone knows will give it 100% and more. Then we can all hope for success. It will not be easy with a small squad and maybe a limited budget.

Like you say...a fresh beginning and the way forward! Isn't that what most people wanted?

[ezz]

Its blatent were desperate to get the best out of what we already have, after last season its easy to see we need to spend money to improve. Were not exactly a club where players are desperate to come to, only if we pay them enough.
Where Jim may succeed in where Sammy failed, is bringing the best out of players who we currently have. A proper team ethic and football philosophy of how he wants them to play.

But anyone who says Sammy left because our transfer budget wasn't big enough is bollocks as they have no proof.

[Posh]

How is an assumption a concrete comment?

Right Mr Arguingjustforthesakeofit please re-read. You said I made assumptions. I didn't. I said I made comments based on some factual information. You ignored it.

According to Sammy he said he felt he's taken the club as far as he can, not I need a lot of money or I'm useless and will therefore leave. Your personal opinion of Sammy has moulded a poor assumption with no evidence at all. So in a way it is a ridiculous assumption and the way you posted it was pretty bitter too.

Oh dear! You've no idea what my personal opinion of Sammy is and I've never said it on here. I've only commented on what's happened. It's not bitter, it's mild. Here's the evidence, admittedly some of it circumstantial.

1. Sammy offered to resign during the transfer window for reasons that had nothing to do with his performance as a manager.

2. Sammy mentioned numerous times about 'being backed in the transfer market', 'needing investment in the team' and 'having a list of transfer targets'.

3. At the AGM (as CC states) it was made clear that the budget would need to reduce not increase.

There is other stuff I can't quote on here which wouldn't be fair to individuals. PM me Ezz if you really want to know.

Why would you think Jim, who's never manager before can spot talent and spend money better than Sammy?

I don't. I'm relying on my own instinct that he will and also that he'll get more out of those that do sign. You also have to compare it to Sammy's record on spotting talent and spending money on players, which I think was poor. However if I went into any depth to justify those remarks you would call me bitter, twisted, assumptive, blah, blah, blah... when I know I'm not.

[ezz]

Nope, I only argue with those that slander others without any facts. Up untill now you hadn't actually given me any, I agree Sammy's transfer record isn't great but not that many managers at this level do have a good transfer record. The ones that get it right, blitz the league.
Every player brought in really is a massive gamble, I was just wondering how Jim was going to improve us (in the transfer market) as he has absolutely no experience there. I'm sure people saying Sammy just used agents is wrong and he'd have had more of an idea of the players that were coming in than he was given credit for, or criticised for.
Anywho as this thread is about Sammy and new jobs, I hope he gets a one higher up just to see what he's capable of up in maybe the Championship.

[morecambe mick]

A job higher up

Like maybe at international level, that is higher.

How did Northern Ireland do under him?

[CASS]

A job higher up

Like maybe at international level, that is higher.

How did Northern Ireland do under him?

Never won a game (I Think)