One Shrimps fan who won't be at Barnet....

[shrimper]

http://www.itv.com/granada/firefighters-in-japan95126/


Our mate Daz - third one interviewed.

[mrpotatohead]

A very selfless brave, and totally nice bloke, god give him a safe return home, and best wishes to his lovely family

[marky No.1]

Good luck to him and his fellow professionals. Must be a really worrying time for the families.

There seem to be more and more disasters (not just on the pitch) not just in this country but worldwide. Correct me if I'm wrong but when we have a natural disaster over here how many other Countries come running to our aid? In this time of recession, hardship, companies and businesses closing down, budget deficit, high taxes etc etc it seems that we can instantly supply our qualified people to risk their lives elsewhere. How do we feel if someone is in a house fire tonight and we are short of guys in the Fire Brigade because they are elsewhere?

Japan is the 3rd richest country (and don't get me wrong it is AWFUL watching the scenes from the tsunami and I feel compassion for all those families involved) but factories have closed over here that used to build televisions, videos, motor cars etc etc because of Japanese imports.
Suppose my question is: Why can't they find help closer to home?

[mrpotatohead]

christ, even by my standards.............darren kyle alongside other brave brits goes to help out in a major disaster and you question it

are you well, or taking the piss

[marky No.1]

Certainly not questioning bravery, neither do I question the cause.
As you seem to know Darren, do such professionals "volunteer" to go out to these disaster areas or are they "sent" ?

Yes I am well thanks.

P.S. No need to change user names if you reply

[Keith]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when we have a natural disaster over here how many other Countries come running to our aid?

I'd correct you if I could think of a natural disaster over here that is anything like that suffered in Japan. I'm pretty sure that if we were faced with a disaster that literally moved the entire country by a meter and the earth off its axis, then other countries would come to our aid if we needed it.

Don't forget, what Darren Kyle and others like him are doing, needs to be done RIGHT NOW. It can't wait for weeks while the country recovers.

[Joel Ninety]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when we have a natural disaster over here how many other Countries come running to our aid?

I'd correct you if I could think of a natural disaster over here that is anything like that suffered in Japan. I'm pretty sure that if we were faced with a disaster that literally moved the entire country by a meter and the earth off its axis, then other countries would come to our aid if we needed it.

Don't forget, what Darren Kyle and others like him are doing, needs to be done RIGHT NOW. It can't wait for weeks while the country recovers.

Agree with Keith. What a dumb question.

[morecambegeek]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when we have a natural disaster over here how many other Countries come running to our aid?

And how many massive Earthquakes have the UK suffered then? Do you object to aid being given to New Zealand too?

The lack of humanity in your post is disgusting.

[Plain Peter]

And how many massive Earthquakes have the UK suffered then? Do you object to aid being given to New Zealand too?

The lack of humanity in your post is disgusting.

There's no lack of humanity in Mark's posting at all.
This country has been suffering a slow, ongoing and probably irreversible earthquake since the General Election in 1997! There was a temporary halt last year, with a few after-shocks since. Now it seems that the stupid British voter wants the earthquake to pick up speed again so we can have the 'good times' back by spending yet more money that we haven't got. The consequences will be as bad for future generations as any earthquake.
I'm sure Mark would have got his points across more acceptably in conversation.

[morecambegeek]

This country has been suffering a slow, ongoing and probably irreversible earthquake since the General Election in 1997!

I'm sure that's meant to be humourous.

[Plain Peter]

I'm sure that's meant to be humourous.

Probably about as humorous as your previous posting.

[morecambegeek]

Probably about as humorous as your previous posting.

I wasn't trying to make a joke.

To which countries is it acceptable for us to donate aid to? Are you happy to just look the other way while people die in Japan?

[Plain Peter]

I wasn't trying to make a joke.

Just proves a point then, that the reading of a posting on a message board can be understood differently by different readers!!

To which countries is it acceptable for us to donate aid to? Are you happy to just look the other way while people die in Japan?

I ain't got a problem with a team of specialists going anywhere. However, I might have reservations with offering financial aid to a rich country, when the UK has become a bankrupt, benefit driven pig-sty.

[Keith]

Okay, lets keep this one on topic, which is that there are brave men and women who are willing to put their necks on the line for humanitarian reasons.

[shrimper]

marky no1 is a thoroughly nice bloke and I'm sure he doesn't intend any malice but I hope he reconsiders his post.

As people have said we have NEVER experienced - and because of our geographical and geological circumstances, almost certainly WILL never experience - anything remotely like the disasters that have occurred in New Zealand, Japan, Haiti, Pakistan and other places our International Search and Rescue teams have visited.

And the whole purpose of these ISAR teams IS to give help wherever and whenever in the world it's needed. They have them in most developed countries and, yes, IF we had such a disaster then we'd see US, Japanese, Australian, Canadian and other countries' teams arriving on our shores as soon as they could muster.

They are specialists who (as 'UKSAR') attend all kinds of incidents in their own country (collapsed buildings etc) and (as ISAR) are on constant standby for international disasters.

When a team goes out, as far as I understand it, there is cover that remains at home.

So, shut your face marky and good luck Daz, hope to see you back safe and well soon, having rescued some people.

[Posh]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when we have a natural disaster over here how many other Countries come running to our aid?

I'd correct you if I could think of a natural disaster over here that is anything like that suffered in Japan. I'm pretty sure that if we were faced with a disaster that literally moved the entire country by a meter and the earth off its axis, then other countries would come to our aid if we needed it.

Don't forget, what Darren Kyle and others like him are doing, needs to be done RIGHT NOW. It can't wait for weeks while the country recovers.

Similarly when Derrick Bird went on his killing spree in Cumbria it could be argued that coppers and their choppers from Lancashire, Cleveland and North Yorkshire shouldn't have been sent because they Cumbrians hadn't paid for their services with their taxes.

Of course that would have been stupid. Local and international emergencies which break all normal boundaries have to be helped by specialists and outside agencies. I'm proud my fellow human beings are helping other fellow human beings in need.

[Keith]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12756366

Part-time Morecambe fan, full time Manxman, eey-Les is in the group that have had to return to the UK due to red tape imposed by the UK government (although the news is still unravelling on this story, so perhaps there is more to it). They're arriving back at Heathrow this afternoon. Shame their skills & training was hampered by politics.

[Bryan]

Known Darren for years. 'Er indoors told me about it today. One of the nicest blokes i've ever met. Not surprised in the least he's over there doing his bit. Good luck mate.

[Plain Peter]

As people have said we have NEVER experienced - and because of our geographical and geological circumstances, almost certainly WILL never experience - anything remotely like the disasters that have occurred in New Zealand, Japan, Haiti, Pakistan and other places our International Search and Rescue teams have visited.

The Blitz! London, Scumampton, Portsmouth, Coventry, Birmingham etc. The continual fear factor too.
World War I and World War II dead!
No outside help needed or offered in any of those minor skirmishes!

[Keith]

World War I and World War II dead!
No outside help needed or offered in any of those minor skirmishes!

I know you can make talking bollocks in to an art form Peter, but even by your standards, the definition of "no outside help" is only accurate if you ignore the following...

* Poland: 1 September 1939
* Australia: 3 September 1939
* France: 3 September 1939
* New Zealand: 3 September 1939
* British Raj British India: 3 September 1939
* Union of South Africa Union of South Africa: 6 September 1939
* Canada: 10 September 1939
* Denmark: 9 April 1940 [30]
* Norway: 9 April 1940
* Belgium: 10 May 1940
* Luxembourg: 10 May 1940
* Netherlands: 10 May 1940
* Greece: 28 October 1940
* Yugoslavia: 6 April 1941
* Soviet Union: 22 June 1941 (cooperated with Germany during the Invasion of Poland)
* Tannu Tuva: 25 June 1941 (annexed by Soviet Union in 1944).
* Panama: 7 December 1941
* Costa Rica: 8 December 1941
* Dominican Republic: 8 December 1941
* El Salvador: 8 December 1941
* Haiti: 8 December 1941
* Honduras: 8 December 1941
* Nicaragua: 8 December 1941
* United States of America: 8 December 1941
* China: 9 December 1941
* Guatemala: 9 December 1941
* Cuba: 9 December 1941
* Philippine Commonwealth: 9 December 1941
* South Korea Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea: 10 December 1941
* Czechoslovakia: 16 December 1941
* Mexico: 22 May 1942
* Brazil: 22 August 1942
* Ethiopia: 14 December 1942
* Iraq: 17 January 1943
* Bolivia: 7 April 1943
* Colombia: 26 July 1943
* Iran: 9 September 1943
* Liberia: 27 January 1944
* Peru: 12 February 1944
* Ecuador: 2 February 1945
* Paraguay: 7 February 1945
* Uruguay: 15 February 1945
* Venezuela: 15 February 1945
* Turkey: 23 February 1945
* Egypt: 24 February 1945
* Lebanon: 27 February 1945
* Syria: 27 February 1945
* Saudi Arabia: 1 March 1945
* Argentina: 27 March 1945
* Chile: 11 April 1945

Quite a list of no outside help.

[Keith]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -tape.html

Les [top photo] and his group arrive back at Heathrow. The Japanese government were glad to have them but the foreign office had to issue a piece of paper to say they were a legitimate search & rescue charity. They refused to do so because they mistakenly believed that this would make them responsible for the group. Without it, they would not be able to move around restricted areas or buy fuel. The Foreign Office desk-jockeys tried to deflect criticism by saying the group didn't have a translator (wrong) then said they didn't have maps. The group have high-tec equipment that has high quality maps that they can print out as required, so err... an inaccurate comment at best (or another lie from the incompetents?) People may well have died who could have been saved by this group if it wasn't for incompetent Foreign Office staff who are now squirming and lying. They actually issued the paper eventually, while the group were on the flight back to the UK.

Obviously, none of them will actually take any responsibility, what with them being in nice, highly paid jobs, all tied up in red tape? Wasn't this your bunch of wasters Peter?

[Dazzer]

The Blitz! London, Scumampton, Portsmouth, Coventry, Birmingham etc. The continual fear factor too.
World War I and World War II dead!
No outside help needed or offered in any of those minor skirmishes!

There was also the small matter of $50 billion (Approaching $1000 Billion in todays terms) of finance provided by the USA to Britain during WWII through the Lend lease Act.

[Plain Peter]

I've been misunderstood again!
My points were that despite the millions of British service personnel and civilians killed during those two wars, and the extensive damage done to several of our major towns and cities in WWII coupled with the continual fear factor, we never sought or were offered outside foreign help to get the country back on its feet. That sort of thing just didn't happen.
I'm not against providing specialist emergency help during any catastrophic event anywhere in the world, just wanted to level the playing field on what Shrimper wrote, no more no less.

Do you and Posh both have a Book of Lists

[marky No.1]

Oh well, looks like I'm shot down. No harm was intended. If anything it has stirred up some strong feelings and Passion, something that has been lacking recently.

It would seem now that our brave lads/lasses that were sent over have been sent back due to red tape. I wonder who p.:...:............... Sorry I'm saying no more.
Sincere condolences to those who have lost friends and family.

Hope you are well Peter. Glen I shall be framing your wonderful comment

[Plain Peter]

Obviously, none of them will actually take any responsibility, what with them being in nice, highly paid jobs, all tied up in red tape? Wasn't this your bunch of wasters Peter?

Afraid so, and one of the reasons why I bailed out.
After 22 years in the disciplined world of the Armed Forces, I found it hard to come to terms with the finest department of our Civil Service. I got to the stage where I refused to do some of the things I was told to do unless I had it in writing, and that was the time to call it a day.
Saying that, they don't get it wrong all of the time, and there are some very hard working and competent bods amongst them.
I managed 10 years, and enjoyed the 4 jobs I had, and of course the 3.5 years in Paris and 4 years in Saudi Arabia. And all the best wine and champers!