richard keys!!

[wijit]

Absolutely I would! I love going to football, any football. Preferably Morecambe, but for many reasons I end up at quite a lot of other places, what I enjoy is the freedom to express what I think of the game and this often manifests itself in swearing. I do not like to swear in front of women and I don't want to be so conscious of if there are women there or not that it detracts from the game. If people find this right or wrong really doesn't concern me. As I said, we have women in the game playing a more and more active role, however as I do not feel happy to hear swearing when there are women around, and still being happy to see our game as a men's game my opinion remains.
Old fashioned, sexist...whatever it is.

[Keith]

Absolutely I would! I love going to football, any football. Preferably Morecambe, but for many reasons I end up at quite a lot of other places, what I enjoy is the freedom to express what I think of the game and this often manifests itself in swearing. I do not like to swear in front of women and I don't want to be so conscious of if there are women there or not that it detracts from the game. If people find this right or wrong really doesn't concern me. As I said, we have women in the game playing a more and more active role, however as I do not feel happy to hear swearing when there are women around, and still being happy to see our game as a men's game my opinion remains.
Old fashioned, sexist...whatever it is.

Therefore, the question remains legitimate...

So given the choice between a second rate male referee or a first rate female referee, you'd go for second rate on the basis of their chromosomes?

[marky No.1]

There is a new player on the board

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[The Fury]

The whole country has been whipped into frenzy by the media, the actual story is something being made out of nothing. The BBC is understandably milking it.

The most sexist comment I've heard thus far has actually come from Karen Brady, who said something along the lines of how proud she was that when she left Birmingham City 70% of office staff were female where previously it had been completely dominated by males. She said nothing about the individuals being qualified or competent enough to do the job, just that they were female. It mades me wonder if males had been discriminated against in order for Karen Brady to trott out statistics.

It's two self-serving, egotistical, dinosaurs being exposed for their out-dated, discriminatory views. If you believe this is "nothing story" then I would suggest this highlights that you hold similar views.

[Moose]

My only addition to this subject is that I will be honest and say that I find it hard to enjoy watching MOTD highlights with a female commentator.
As for officials... no problem at all if they can do the job.

[shrimper]

Absolutely I would! I love going to football, any football. Preferably Morecambe, but for many reasons I end up at quite a lot of other places, what I enjoy is the freedom to express what I think of the game and this often manifests itself in swearing. I do not like to swear in front of women and I don't want to be so conscious of if there are women there or not that it detracts from the game. If people find this right or wrong really doesn't concern me. As I said, we have women in the game playing a more and more active role, however as I do not feel happy to hear swearing when there are women around, and still being happy to see our game as a men's game my opinion remains.
Old fashioned, sexist...whatever it is.

Okay, that's your prerogative of course and if the need to swear is, for you, so powerful then so be it.

To put a slightly different perspective on the topic I, too, love to go to football matches and enjoy myself and get emotional and excited. There have been times, in the past, when I've indulged in a bit of swearing as well.

More recently, however, I've had immense enjoyment attending matches (Spurs and Morecambe up and down the country) with my family. By sheer act of nature, apart from me, my family consists exclusively of females (one wife, four daughters) all of whom also enjoy their football.

I too don't like to swear in front of women and, particularly, in front of little girls. So I don't.

I have to say it hasn't hampered my enjoyment one little bit.

Further, I happen to think that having more and more women at football matches is a hugely positive thing BECAUSE it makes men conscious of their own behaviour, as you've indicated.

If it leads to less swearing and, therefore, by implication, less aggression, less confrontation and a more self-conscious male crowd then I think that's good for football.


Back to the Keys/Gray thing. I think people miss the point if they think banter aimed at men is always the same as banter aimed at women.

In some areas of employment and society women (and people of certain race) still don't get equal treatment. In those circumstances, attitudes like those displayed by Keys and Gray can ACTUALLY affect people's chances of promotion or just being taken seriously.

Banter by women about men doesn't usually have any real effect at all so IS just banter. Maybe when things are equal in every respect and in every area of society then banter CAN be just that. But we're not quite there yet.

[Keith]

Banter by women about men doesn't usually have any real effect at all so IS just banter. Maybe when things are equal in every respect and in every area of society then banter CAN be just that. But we're not quite there yet.

Although a recent report demonstrated that a single woman in her twenties will, on average, be paid more than a single male in his twenties, so perhaps things have changed and now just need to feed through?

I agree with the majority of the rest of shrimper's post. I too used to swear profoundly when at football. I recall an occasion when we were playing at Gateshead when I had 'lost it' and was swearing a great deal and was asked to stop by a woman who was with her children. At the time my thoughts were "it's football, get over it" but with reflection, I was totally wrong, even if the ref was F*£&!^g useless! I try to curb my language at football, despite it being the place where I used to let off steam, because times have changed. People used to smoke at football or throw bananas at coloured players, fortunately times change.

[Plain Peter]

People used to smoke at football or throw bananas at coloured players, fortunately times change.

If I bought a banana it was to eat.
I think you are talking about a small minority of morons.
The modern version of the moron still find a way to have their 'fun'.

[Mike W.]

As I always say, I reserve the right to say you are a pillock whatever your race colour crede, or gender - I am wholly undiscriminatory about that ! All types and varieties of human have their share of duffers and there is no evidence that females, women or whatever you prefer to label half the human race as, have any more duffers than males have.

One official at Hereford v Morecambe was a woman, and though there were a few numb-heads in the crowd that shouted the (fairly obvious and easy) usual comments, I give credit to the Home crowd, in front of whom she mostly ran, that they treated her simply as a match official, nothing more or less. When she gave what they saw as a "right" decision, she will have heard one or two "Well done love !" type comments, but when she gave what they said (usually wrongly in my view) were incorrect decisions there was only the odd shout like "Why don't you get back to your ironing !" - just "normal" non-sexist type whinges.

After the past few days she must have been a wee bit apprehensive about the match beforehand. I see the liner who was the centre of the Gray/ Keys matter Sian Massey, was taken off her appointment for the Crewe game the other evening, reportedly with her full agreement. The stated reason was that they didn't want attentions on the night to be deflected away from the game and towards her.

Personally, I have never before been happy to lose some keys, but I was this time !

Mike W.

[Plain Peter]

I see the liner who was the centre of the Gray/ Keys matter Sian Massey, was taken off her appointment for the Crewe game the other evening, reportedly with her full agreement. The stated reason was that they didn't want attentions on the night to be deflected away from the game and towards her.

She's been pulled from her Blue Square North game tomorrow too.
Best thing would be for her to return to a big crowd game.

[Enufznuf]

Absolutely I would! I love going to football, any football. Preferably Morecambe, but for many reasons I end up at quite a lot of other places, what I enjoy is the freedom to express what I think of the game and this often manifests itself in swearing. I do not like to swear in front of women and I don't want to be so conscious of if there are women there or not that it detracts from the game. If people find this right or wrong really doesn't concern me. As I said, we have women in the game playing a more and more active role, however as I do not feel happy to hear swearing when there are women around, and still being happy to see our game as a men's game my opinion remains.
Old fashioned, sexist...whatever it is.

I see we have found the missing link!

Ignorance and arrogance all rolled up in a tight ball of prejudice.

[jonnythedog]

Aye, "I can't manage my behaviour and I'm concerned that you might think ill of me when you see it and get offended. Therefore I'd appreciate it if you could stay at home so I don't have to feel guilty about it."

I love the fact that you've got this image of women being meek and deeply affected by your behaviour. Have you heard some of the things that women shout out at matches?!? Trust me, you've not got nothing to worry about.

Essentially you can't have a game at any level without a ref and the moronic culture of abusing referees in sport must surely put many off. Therefore we should be grateful that there a people who are willing to stand in the middle (or run the line) and put up with it regardless of gender.