O/T Student protests

[Lloydie]

Bring back National Service!

[Plain Peter]

Bring back National Service!

Our Armed Forces are stretched to the limit, and many of the bases have been sold off for housing estates.
So there'd be no-one and nowhere to train these people.
Nor probably would there be enough return on the investment.
CC has a decent idea, inviting would-be students to do 12 months community work after leaving 6th Form.

[ezz]

It's a good idea, anyone moaning shold have been born earlier. Its doing many a favour by not going to uni and not getting a job after finishing.

[essex_shrimp]

National Service erm no.


My gran dad rip bryan was in the army and even before he died told me getting young people going to national service will toughen them up never happen.

What should happen is be very hard on benefits ie alot harder to get prove you are apply for 10 jobs a week if it is snowing or bad weather you gotta work for free for your benefit and make sure you do everything to have pride in urself if your not in work but are trying your best to find work keep it and do something for the community.

national service erm no chance we want people joining the army that have a passion in doing that not bunch of uneducated bad attitdude chavs that do not wanna be there

i am wrong yes. sure i will get negative postings now

[thegentlegiant]

at the end of the day, everyone in the uk is having to pay more money so why should students avoid this?

Some do go to uni to avoid working so quite rightly fee's should be raised. Some family's get to send there kids to uni and have a great easy simple life, not all of us had that luxury so they should count there self as lucky, some people never made it to there GCSE's due to bullying or being raised in less deprived area's.

The sooner it comes into play the better, then these ridicules protests will stop, to attack the future kings car is a slightly stupid thing to do, this is only going to leave the government no choice but to implement the changes quicker.

[P/T Indie]

What should happen is be very hard on benefits ie alot harder to get prove you are apply for 10 jobs a week if it is snowing or bad weather you gotta work for free for your benefit and make sure you do everything to have pride in urself if your not in work but are trying your best to find work keep it and do something for the community.

i am wrong yes. sure i will get negative postings now [/quote]


Good post Essex Shrimps I think if your on job seekers allowance you should do community work for your money. If I was made unemployed I would go mad having to stay at home and would quite happily go out and do jobs in the community to try and tidy it up.

For a starter I would get some red paint and send some people down to the Globe to paint the barriers

[RedRedWine1]

I thought a protest was supposed to achieve change, these violent exchanges and the vandalism of state property have ultimately changed nothing and cost the tax payer more money. Contrasting that to the cuts in sport for schools programme headed by Denise Lewis (which has lead to a rethink in Government policy) only highlights the stupidity of recent events. Unfortunately, I think the protests have been influenced by those who have no interest in the well being of students, they just want a ruck. The actual purpose in the protest has been lost.

[Keith]

It is not unreasonable for students to repay the loan for their education when they achieve a decent salary. A lot of self employed people have to take out bank loans etc in order to go into business and earn a living so why should students be immune from economics.

But this is a frequently repeated nonsense! They DO pay for their education when they earn a decent salary... They have a decent salary, so they pay more tax! THAT is how they pay a return on their education.

I never went to university, worked all my adult life and I don't have children, so no vested interest, but I strongly believe that young people should be given every opportunity to continue their education. I want the best people in the best jobs rather than the people from the wealthiest families in the best jobs. I want to see an expansion of meritocracy rather than having the ladder taken further and further out of reach of those from the poorest families.

The Dems have quite possibly made their party entirely defunct by backing this process. They are effectively saying that their manifesto is one of this is what we will do if you don't vote us in to power, if you do vote us in to power then we'll do as we are told.

I don't agree with the riots, but it was always going to be a small group of militants rather than a representation of the majority of decent young people at universities. Remember the poll tax riots when the wicked witch was attacking the poor to feed the rich? Just because the rioting was wrong doesn't make the issue right.

[essex_shrimp]

Well personally

I am trying my hardest to work for a agency trying to get me work for ntg

and also have lovly chats with gentlegiant regarding doing casual work for him dropping off leaflets and like every day I am applying for another 4 jobs in the lancashire area.

it is all about self belief i am with those student protests by the way these lads and ladies are the future that will be in full time work paying taxes and paying off student loans

[Keith]

...not all of us had that luxury so they should count there self as lucky, some people never made it to there GCSE's due to bullying or being raised in less deprived area's.

And yet you think it is a good thing to make it harder for young people from deprived areas to go on to university? A 'luxury' item is generally something expensive. Rich people tend to have luxury items while the poorer people are, the less luxury items they will afford. So why make university even more of a luxury?

Why not make it something that is based upon ability rather than wallet?

[durhamshrimp]

I thought a protest was supposed to achieve change, these violent exchanges and the vandalism of state property have ultimately changed nothing and cost the tax payer more money.

Poll Tax riots?

If people are turning on the news every night and seeing these scenes and associating them with Tory Britain then it is achieving something.

[durhamshrimp]

...not all of us had that luxury so they should count there self as lucky, some people never made it to there GCSE's due to bullying or being raised in less deprived area's.

And yet you think it is a good thing to make it harder for young people from deprived areas to go on to university? A 'luxury' item is generally something expensive. Rich people tend to have luxury items while the poorer people are, the less luxury items they will afford. So why make university even more of a luxury?

Why not make it something that is based upon ability rather than wallet?

Agree with every word of that. The same reason why I don't think private schools should be allowed.

'Will I be able to afford to go to University?' should never be an issue.

'Can I work hard enough, am i intelligent enough?' should be.

[Heysham_red]

I support peaceful protests, even if the protest is against my beliefs. The ability to have freedom of speech should never be taken away. As a graduate I support the principles behind the reason to protest against the increase in student fees. But I cannot support any act of violence or vandalism which was clearly undertaken by some protesters yesterday/today.

the yobbish behaviour may or may not have been genuine protesters but people looking to cause trouble. In either case, they should have the book thrown at them because ultimately there were crimes committed.

my anser with all these bitter rebellious Scotish Irish Welsh lot what if England turned around and said well we dont want to be part of Britain anymore and they'd be like doh errrrrr we've not thought have that one. and then watch them all become like Albania

What has this got to do with the protests? The change in fees affects every student in Britain. which is why there were peaceful protests in Glasgow yesterday.

...they get loans which they piss up the wall.

although there is a drinking culture among students have you ever considered what this student culture does to the local economy (I'm taking drinking, shopping and use of local amenities? No? take a look at both Preston and Lancaster and tell me they would be the same or better places without students.

...Most of them dont ever use there skills they have acquired!!!

WHAT???? can you prove this? Everyone in the room I work in has a degree. All if not most are in some kind of computer science or business. Guess what, we are software development company. Unless you can back up ridiculous statements like this then please don't post them.

[Heysham_Shrimp]

It is not unreasonable for students to repay the loan for their education when they achieve a decent salary. A lot of self employed people have to take out bank loans etc in order to go into business and earn a living so why should students be immune from economics.

But this is a frequently repeated nonsense! They DO pay for their education when they earn a decent salary... They have a decent salary, so they pay more tax! THAT is how they pay a return on their education.

I never went to university, worked all my adult life and I don't have children, so no vested interest, but I strongly believe that young people should be given every opportunity to continue their education. I want the best people in the best jobs rather than the people from the wealthiest families in the best jobs. I want to see an expansion of meritocracy rather than having the ladder taken further and further out of reach of those from the poorest families.

The Dems have quite possibly made their party entirely defunct by backing this process. They are effectively saying that their manifesto is one of this is what we will do if you don't vote us in to power, if you do vote us in to power then we'll do as we are told.

I don't agree with the riots, but it was always going to be a small group of militants rather than a representation of the majority of decent young people at universities. Remember the poll tax riots when the wicked witch was attacking the poor to feed the rich? Just because the rioting was wrong doesn't make the issue right.

Keith , when I see Student bars being put into the hands of the Official Receiver I will give your comments a little more credence.

[ezz]

Why does it make it harder for deprived people to go to uni?
It actually states the tuition fee's go up, but if your from a family earning less than a certain amount you still get the loan to cover it, you just have to pay more back afterwards.
Doesn't stop anyone from applying, look at america, it cost about $20,000 a year families start saving before kids are born. So no point moaning that we have it bad!

[P/T Indie]

WHAT???? can you prove this? Everyone in the room I work in has a degree. All if not most are in some kind of computer science or business. Guess what, we are software development company. Unless you can back up ridiculous statements like this then please don't post them.[/quote]


I work in an office where everyone has a degree apart from me yet we do the same job. Their degrees vary from English, Russian Linguistics, Enviromental Science, Politics and countryside and wildlife yet we all do a finance based job

I didn't need a degree to get my job and I am sure them having a degree in Russian Linguistics wasn't the deciding factor in getting a finance job.

[Plain Peter]

The Dems have quite possibly made their party entirely defunct by backing this process. They are effectively saying that their manifesto is one of this is what we will do if you don't vote us in to power, if you do vote us in to power then we'll do as we are told.

What would Labour have done?
They set up the [Lord] Brown Report on their watch didn't they?
Didn't this £6K (up to £9K exceptionallly) come out from the Brown Report?
Didn't Labour say that students would start paying back their loan when they started to earn at least £15K a year?
What figure are the Coalition using? £21K isn't it!? Sounds a better deal to me.
A lot of students are never going to get a job on the back of their degree, and whatever job they do get isn't going to pay out that £21K for years to come.
The Coalition have only made a decision that Labour would have had to make!

[thegentlegiant]

I support peaceful protests, even if the protest is against my beliefs. The ability to have freedom of speech should never be taken away. As a graduate I support the principles behind the reason to protest against the increase in student fees. But I cannot support any act of violence or vandalism which was clearly undertaken by some protesters yesterday/today.

the yobbish behaviour may or may not have been genuine protesters but people looking to cause trouble. In either case, they should have the book thrown at them because ultimately there were crimes committed.

my anser with all these bitter rebellious Scotish Irish Welsh lot what if England turned around and said well we dont want to be part of Britain anymore and they'd be like doh errrrrr we've not thought have that one. and then watch them all become like Albania

What has this got to do with the protests? The change in fees affects every student in Britain. which is why there were peaceful protests in Glasgow yesterday.

...they get loans which they piss up the wall.

although there is a drinking culture among students have you ever considered what this student culture does to the local economy (I'm taking drinking, shopping and use of local amenities? No? take a look at both Preston and Lancaster and tell me they would be the same or better places without students.

...Most of them dont ever use there skills they have acquired!!!

WHAT???? can you prove this? Everyone in the room I work in has a degree. All if not most are in some kind of computer science or business. Guess what, we are software development company. Unless you can back up ridiculous statements like this then please don't post them.

I know lots of people who work in places like sainsbury's, morrisons and asda who all have degrees but do not use there skill's, there happy enough plodding along without paying student loans, and believe me that's a hell of lot of students do this, the average debt when leaving uni is 20k+

...not all of us had that luxury so they should count there self as lucky, some people never made it to there GCSE's due to bullying or being raised in less deprived area's.

And yet you think it is a good thing to make it harder for young people from deprived areas to go on to university? A 'luxury' item is generally something expensive. Rich people tend to have luxury items while the poorer people are, the less luxury items they will afford. So why make university even more of a luxury?

Why not make it something that is based upon ability rather than wallet?

Lower income family's should still receive help from the government, as you say everyone deserves the right to further education.

Or as someone has suggested on here make them work for a year before they goto uni.

My way is very similar but the taxes they earn in there first year of working should go towards paying for further education, I believe students for the first 12 months of their working life currently don't pay tax. So I would make them pay tax and this should be used to fund further education. IMO

[Heysham_red]

WHAT???? can you prove this? Everyone in the room I work in has a degree. All if not most are in some kind of computer science or business. Guess what, we are software development company. Unless you can back up ridiculous statements like this then please don't post them.

I work in an office where everyone has a degree apart from me yet we do the same job. Their degrees vary from English, Russian Linguistics, Enviromental Science, Politics and countryside and wildlife yet we all do a finance based job

I didn't need a degree to get my job and I am sure them having a degree in Russian Linguistics wasn't the deciding factor in getting a finance job.[/quote]

So maybe I wasn't clear. of course there are people who have degrees unrelated to there job. But to say most graduates and have jobs that are unrelated to their degree, without any evidence, is nothing more than hearsay. If the evidence is given and I'm proven wrong then I will hold my hands up but I very much doubt it.

[Duffman]

I believe students for the first 12 months of their working life currently don't pay tax

Students fall under the same category as everyone else, they can earn £6,475 (which is going to be increased) before paying tax. Certainly when I was a student and working part-time I go no tax relief whatsoever.

[Heysham_red]

and just in case anyone was interested in my drivel!

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/ ... -cipd.html

point proven, It would appear most is correct. And to be honest I'm surprised by that. Although I'm not totally backed into the corner, I still think it depends on your degree and 2 years? don't most students go travelling in the first year. Anyway I take some of what I said back.

Also to defend myself...

although there is a drinking culture among students have you ever considered what this student culture does to the local economy (I'm taking drinking, shopping and use of local amenities?) No? take a look at both Preston and Lancaster and tell me they would be the same or better places without students.

[marky No.1]

they get loans which they piss up the wall

You could be on to something there

studentprotest.jpg

[Plain Peter]

Certainly when I was a student and working part-time I go no tax relief whatsoever.

Council Tax
National Insurance credits?
Discounts in loads of retail outlets

[Plain Peter]

I want the best people in the best jobs rather than the people from the wealthiest families in the best jobs.

and just in case anyone was interested in my drivel!

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/ ... -cipd.html

Good link H_r, cancels Keith out.

[Morecambe Jack]

I'm a student and I haven't been involved in any of the protests at all and obviously condemn all the violence, although it is a very small number of people.

What is ridiculous is your attack on students as a whole gentlegiant just because we've followed a different path in life than yourself. You might have made yourself proud in life without going to Uni but what on Earth has that got to do with people going to university who have aspired to do so all their life? The loans we get are not adequate to live off anyway; I have friends whose loans did not even cover the cost of their accommodation so the theory that we "piss it up the wall" is wrong. Yes students enjoy themselves outside of study but so do any other people our age and like someone said, student spending is integral to local economies across the UK.

Your point that the skills students learn are never used has already been rejected by people giving examples of them using their degrees in work. There are also other transferable skills learnt at university which employers look for - obviously they can be obtained in other ways but that doesn't discredit the purpose of university. On the tax issue, of course we are not exempt in our first 12 months of working, that’s a ridiculous claim.

Your point about University being a luxury because “some people never made it to there [sic] GCSE's due to bullying” is also short sighted. There are many people at university who were bullied at school but still did well academically and came to university and had a fresh start. I lived with someone in first year who opening said that they were bullied throughout school and had little or no confidence because of it when they came to university. Honestly, you would not believe the transformation to now and that is all due to the university experience.

I also don’t think that this 12 month voluntary idea is necessary either, CC. Why should people have to volunteer for 12 months just to get into university? It is as if you are saying that students make no contribution to society at all. That’s an absolute joke. There are many societies at university which students get involved in to help the local community – I am a member of one at the University of Manchester. Many students spend a lot of their time helping the community and spend even more time and money fundraising for various charities. So actually, a lot of students do have a “flavour of the real world” and understand their “responsibilities to society”, and I take offense at you suggesting that we are in some sort of fantasy land.