O/T TUITION FEES AND THE LIBERALS

[mrpotatohead]

The liberals,in their desparate hope of some kind of power, have become the tories, bitch, they have no longer a place in our now, one sided politcal system, the liberals will totally vanish in 3 years, we may as well scrap elections as all parties are totally full of lies.

Vince Cable is a piece of work

[Westgate Wanderer]

You keep voting Labour mate.... how much did they put the country into debt??

[RedRedWine1]

I feel a bit sorry fir them, for decades they've been on the political sidelines dreaming up fantasy policies that they would never be held to account for, because realistically they have as much chance of being elected as the monster raving looney party....zilch.

It couldn't have worked out better for the Tories, they implement their own unpopular policies, and the liberals carry the can. I personally think it would have been similar for the liberals which ever party they formed a coalition government.

[Plain Peter]

About time universities only ran meaningful courses that had a realistic chance of a well paid job at the end of it.
Places should only given to students with the right 'A'-level results.
Then, the drastic reduction in the need for tuition fees would do away with the need for the cost to be passed on to the student.
I really don't know what the big deal is these days, it seems that nearly every teenager wants to to to university whether they've got decent grades or not. Further education should be a privilege that has been earned.

[Posh]

You keep voting Labour mate.... how much did they put the country into debt??

If we're talking about debt from bailing out the banks then a lot. If you're talking about increased public spending then it accounts for a relatively small increase in debt.

If you think Labour are responsible for the bank debt then who is responsible for it in Ireland, USA, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Germany and Greece to mention a few.

[Posh]

The Liberal Democrats have and continue to be a complete joke in government. You've got Nick Clegg waving a manifesto that said that they would cut tuition fees and then Lib Dem MPs signed a pledge to say they were committed to abolishing tuition fees. Now in government they are trebling them.

But why? Apparently it's all because of the debt and we can't afford not to so this. Yet speak to the Tories and it's got nothing to do with debt and more to do with privatisation and ideology. E.g. Tory MP Nadine Dorres on Question Time said, "many people in my constituency don't want to pay to send people to university". Basically state funding of higher and further education is down to you and your family to pay. The Tories are privatising further education and it's Lib Dems giving them the cover of saying it had to be done to help the nation's finances. Universities will be a haven for the rich and unaffordable to ordinary families.

Just as bad is one of the other top Lib Dem pledges (a Vince Cable one) was to close tax loopholes and end tax evasion. So who do the ConDems hire to work with LibDem Danny Alexander? No other than Philip Green, "owner" of BHS, who siphoned off £1.2 billion in dividends via Monaco and avoided paying £280 million in tax or enough to pay for 3,000 nurses and build a hospital.

I could go on and mention things like cutting the benefits of those disabled people in care homes by 64%. But where would I end? Except to a plague of both their houses. Sickening.

[Keith]

I could go on and mention things like cutting the benefits of those disabled people in care homes by 64%. But where would I end? Except to a plague of both their houses. Sickening.

The problem is the opposition had become a shambolic, complacent party when in power who deserved to be out on their arse. Sadly there was no decent party to replace them (which is exactly why no party won over-all majority). The 'problem' for Labour is that the Dems are currently happy to drop any Liberal pretence so that they can keep some power. In doing so, the Conservatives may actually hold the coalition together and possibly even go full term. Only if some LibDem backbenchers decide that the whole thing is simply too unpalatable and cross the floor will it come tumbling down. Power or principles? It could get interesting.

[Plain Peter]

If you think Labour are responsible for the bank debt then who is responsible for it in Ireland, USA, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Germany and Greece to mention a few.

The government of the day of course.
It should never have happened the way it did.
The collision didn't just happen, there was a long, long slippery slope.
The Labour governement did diddly about it, and even encouraged the stupid spend, lend and borrow mentatility.

[USA Shrimp]

If voting REALLY changed anything they wouldn't let us do it.

Jello Biafra

[Posh]

If voting REALLY changed anything they wouldn't let us do it.

Jello Biafra

That's very apparent over the last couple of weeks. Power is concentrated in an elite and in Western democracies that elite and it's way of life is rarely challenged (almost never through the ballot box where elections can still be bought). But when it is expect the full wrath of the state to fall on you. So if you're Wikileaks expect to be labelled a terrorist, have politicians in Canada and the US call for your assassination, pressure put on companies to close you down and censor you, and get allegations of sexual molestation against you.

Meanwhile the Israelis kill enemies, the French put bombs on protestors boats and the Americans kidnap you in a foreign democracy and ship you overseas for a bit of light torture.

Beneath the state's velvet glove is an iron fist just waiting to get out.

[Plain Peter]

That's very apparent over the last couple of weeks. Power is concentrated in an elite and in Western democracies that elite and it's way of life is rarely challenged (almost never through the ballot box where elections can still be bought).

Like FIFA and the World Cup.

But when it is expect the full wrath of the state to fall on you. So if you're Wikileaks expect to be labelled a terrorist, have politicians in Canada and the US call for your assassination, pressure put on companies to close you down and censor you, and get allegations of sexual molestation against you.

Wikileaks is a bit extreme.
Are you suggesting anybody should be able to leak anything about anybody?

Meanwhile the Israelis kill enemies, the French put bombs on protestors boats and the Americans kidnap you in a foreign democracy and ship you overseas for a bit of light torture.
Beneath the state's velvet glove is an iron fist just waiting to get out.

That sort of thing is hardly 21st Century is it?

[marky No.1]

I see Cadburys are moving some of their business to Switzerland to save paying British Tax. As more of the big fish continue to avoid paying one way or another, the rest of us have to pay more as shops continue to get boarded up.

[George Dawes]

am starting to think the Wikileaks have been accidentally spilt on purpose by the US

[Posh]

I see Cadburys are moving some of their business to Switzerland to save paying British Tax. As more of the big fish continue to avoid paying one way or another, the rest of us have to pay more as shops continue to get boarded up.

£200 million in tax lost to the British economy. The only gainers are rich American investors and those lucky enough in the US to get a decent pension fund. The losers are us and we'll have to make up the difference. George Osborne intends to do nothing about it because he likes tax rates to be competitive apparently.

[Posh]

If you think Labour are responsible for the bank debt then who is responsible for it in Ireland, USA, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Germany and Greece to mention a few.

The government of the day of course.
It should never have happened the way it did.
The collision didn't just happen, there was a long, long slippery slope.
The Labour governement did diddly about it, and even encouraged the stupid spend, lend and borrow mentatility.

That's what the Tories would have you believe. In the USA the situation is arguably far worse than the UK yet their electorate don't blame Bush and the Republicans, despite the economic collapse happening on their watch. The reason is that it's politically expedient for the Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, Democrats, Republicans, Fianna Fail etc to blame each other because it continues their monopoly over being our political masters and means nothing really changes. The bankers get off scot free as well as the ludicrously paid regulators, credit rating agency people, central bankers who all went to private school and universities together with the errr politicians.

Nobody addresses the central problem, which is the failure of free market capitalism. It failed in the 1930s and it's failed monumentally again and losers, as ever, are those least responsible - the ordinary worker, the poor and hard-working families. If the Tories had been in power the same would have happened, if the Democrats had been in power the same would have happened. Growth, greed and the naive belief that a market can't fail powered this boom, the Internet boom, the South Sea bubble and the tulip boom.

The problem is we sad consumerists can't see beyond our Nintendos or the next must have to notice

[shrimpnsave]

If you think Labour are responsible for the bank debt then who is responsible for it in Ireland, USA, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Germany and Greece to mention a few.

The government of the day of course.
It should never have happened the way it did.
The collision didn't just happen, there was a long, long slippery slope.
The Labour governement did diddly about it, and even encouraged the stupid spend, lend and borrow mentatility.

That's what the Tories would have you believe. In the USA the situation is arguably far worse than the UK yet their electorate don't blame Bush and the Republicans, despite the economic collapse happening on their watch. The reason is that it's politically expedient for the Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, Democrats, Republicans, Fianna Fail etc to blame each other because it continues their monopoly over being our political masters and means nothing really changes. The bankers get off scot free as well as the ludicrously paid regulators, credit rating agency people, central bankers who all went to private school and universities together with the errr politicians.

Nobody addresses the central problem, which is the failure of free market capitalism. It failed in the 1930s and it's failed monumentally again and losers, as ever, are those least responsible - the ordinary worker, the poor and hard-working families. If the Tories had been in power the same would have happened, if the Democrats had been in power the same would have happened. Growth, greed and the naive belief that a market can't fail powered this boom, the Internet boom, the South Sea bubble and the tulip boom.

The problem is we sad consumerists can't see beyond our Nintendos or the next must have to notice

haha......

have you ever heard of a circle mate,around around we go on the merrygoround,if you feel you can do better than an an elected politician go for it...........................................

[mrpotatohead]

the point of the post is that the elected polititions have no power, or principles

[shrimpnsave]

the point of the post is that the elected polititions have no power, or principles

I fink i made my point..................

[Posh]

haha......

have you ever heard of a circle mate,around around we go on the merrygoround,if you feel you can do better than an an elected politician go for it...........................................

Not entirely sure what you mean. The answer clearly I'm implying clearly isn't me but instead a different socio economic model that puts human beings and the world we live in first.

[outsider]

FFS.................. I hope the snow melts soon, so we can get back to moaning about the football/pies/manager/ and bovril, atleast I understand about that!

[mrpotatohead]

hmm what point did you make ss, more importantly, is there one person on here, looked at by 311 already, that can offer a defence for the liberals

[The Marksman]

If you think Labour are responsible for the bank debt then who is responsible for it in Ireland, USA, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Germany and Greece to mention a few.

The government of the day of course.
It should never have happened the way it did.
The collision didn't just happen, there was a long, long slippery slope.
The Labour governement did diddly about it, and even encouraged the stupid spend, lend and borrow mentatility.

That's what the Tories would have you believe. In the USA the situation is arguably far worse than the UK yet their electorate don't blame Bush and the Republicans, despite the economic collapse happening on their watch. The reason is that it's politically expedient for the Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, Democrats, Republicans, Fianna Fail etc to blame each other because it continues their monopoly over being our political masters and means nothing really changes. The bankers get off scot free as well as the ludicrously paid regulators, credit rating agency people, central bankers who all went to private school and universities together with the errr politicians.

Nobody addresses the central problem, which is the failure of free market capitalism. It failed in the 1930s and it's failed monumentally again and losers, as ever, are those least responsible - the ordinary worker, the poor and hard-working families. If the Tories had been in power the same would have happened, if the Democrats had been in power the same would have happened. Growth, greed and the naive belief that a market can't fail powered this boom, the Internet boom, the South Sea bubble and the tulip boom.

The problem is we sad consumerists can't see beyond our Nintendos or the next must have to notice

You were going so well until that point.

The problem is, you've been led to believe that we've actually been living in a free-market capitalist system - we haven't. If interest rates were too low, leading to excessive lending, whose fault is that? The central banks set interest rates, not the market. If businesses do the wrong thing and go bankrupt, in a free market system, they'd just fail and new business models would spring up in their place - they wouldn't be bailed out, impoverishing their parent nation. No, the real problem is that we haven't been living in a free market.

[mrpotatohead]

demonstrated perfectly by the actions of cable and co.

elected minority with no principles or morals, and everyone thinks they hold a balance of power,democracy here is now funnier than in italy.

[Posh]

The problem is, you've been led to believe that we've actually been living in a free-market capitalist system - we haven't. If interest rates were too low, leading to excessive lending, whose fault is that? The central banks set interest rates, not the market.

Of course that's utter nonsense. Yes central banks set interest rates but you're implying they engineered a debt bubble deliberately. The European Central Bank and the Bank of England are independent and made of the very people who form the market. Rate setting is almost as free from political influence as it has ever been. However the biggest problem with that argument is that key interest rates - LIBOR, bond and gilts rates - the rates at which companies, banks and governments borrow at are entirely set by the market.

If businesses do go bankrupt, in a free market system, they'd just fail and new business models would spring up in their place - they wouldn't be bailed out, impoverishing their parent nation. No, the problem is we haven't been living in a free market.

Of course virtually all businesses in the UK that should fail does and nobody bails it out. The only exception has been the banks and a couple of related institutions. The reason the banks get bailed out is because of the follow on impact. Firstly investment banks should have gone to the wall as they don't lend and the fallout could have been handled. However if RBS, Halifax, Northern Rock etc had been allowed to go under then they would have taken down every other bank and we would have had complete meltdown. We would have very quickly reached a state where people wouldn't believe that the piece of paper in their pocket worth about 3p and some words on was actually worth £20. Governments had no option but to bail out commercial banks.

The fundamental problem is the free market allowed a safe conservative industry to get greedy with massive bonuses for delivering higher profits whatever the risk. Virtually entirely self-regulated, they broke all the rules and designed products to allow themselves to lend more and more.

The free market screwed us all. Now it's time to make it our servant.

[Plain Peter]

Who was it that:
1. Plundered the Company Pensions pot?
2. Sold our Gold at a rock bottom price?
3. Poured £millions into education, diluting standards and pass marks in public examinations.
4. In the same pot as 3. above promising new schools, but building hardly any, though managing to put in place layer upon layer of useless red tape in the procurement process?