Shrimpsvoices

......with no prospects or ambition?
It's a hard life at the moment.

I was in the same boat almost 40 years ago.
Joined the Royal Navy.
Great life.

Saw the world, got paid for it
Made life-long mates
Before you know it it's time to say "Au revoir" and you're an old togger at 40.
Immediate pension, and a tax-free gratuity.

Life soon passes by.
I'm indexed-linked now and on almost £800 a month, apres Gordon.
Lifes's a doddle!

Peter wrote:......with no prospects or ambition?

You heard it here first. If you have no ambition, join the navy.

Hello DS.
What's life like these days then for school leavers?
Prospects and ambitions are fairly equal, ie flip all.
What do you suggest?

Peter wrote:What do you suggest?

Not drinking and surfing!

Come on Peter, great response from DS, he got you good there boy!

Keith wrote:Come on Peter, great response from DS, he got you good there boy!

How much are you paying to visit China Keith?
I've done it all for nowt, and most of South East Asia, and Oz, and NZ, and North America, and the best of the Mediterranean coast, and much of the Middle East.
And got a nice pension out of it, £900 clear a month just about pays for mine and Doris' annual jaunts.
Enjoy the eclipse, and the tidal bore.
We'll enjoy the Tiger and sunsets in Kota Kinabalu, 4 days to go

Anyone know a good B&B in Burton? We'll be there

Peter wrote:......
I'm indexed-linked now and on almost £800 a month, apres Gordon.
Lifes's a doddle!

Peter wrote:And got a nice pension out of it, £900 clear a month j

damn £100 a month rise in 1 1/2hrs???? are you that bloke from northan rock?

I've done it all for nowt,

We know, you've told us before how the rest of us have paid for you and your families jollies around the world. It wouldn't be so bad if you'd told us how you all worked hard for us but like you've just said, Lifes's a doddle!.

outsider wrote:
damn £100 a month rise in 1 1/2hrs???? are you that bloke from northan rock?

Sorry about that.
Can be explained two ways.
Either finger trouble on't key board.
Or the £120 a month War Pension I get in addition to the basic beer tokens.

Gnasher wrote:We know, you've told us before how the rest of us have paid for you and your families jollies around the world. It wouldn't be so bad if you'd told us how you all worked hard for us but like you've just said, Lifes's a doddle!.

I sort of agree with you Brian.
But I put my head on the line, and was prepared for whatever came my way.
I was lucky, many haven't been, but that's the rub of it.
My point is, and perhaps I haven't put it across very well, is that the youth of today is heading into a brickwall.
If they can't find a job, and most it seems won't, then JOIN UP.
Believe me, and I think Sgt Major will agree, it's a great life, with a decent, well-deserved carrot dangling at the end of it.

I hope you're not going to turn your back on this posting

I'm in the training market, sort of, and I see the other side of the coin. The armed forces isn't the only solution as the government itself sees with the investment in apprenticeships (which the armed forces do themselves but I'm not aware of any additional investment through them).

Some companies have hit apprenticeships hard, cutting places. Others see that now is the time to invest in apprentices so they have qualified employees in place when we pull out of this credit crunch. Unfortunately budgetary problems at the LSC is messing a lot of people around.

Gnasher wrote:I'm in the training market, sort of, and I see the other side of the coin. The armed forces isn't the only solution as the government itself sees with the investment in apprenticeships (which the armed forces do themselves but I'm not aware of any additional investment through them).

Some companies have hit apprenticeships hard, cutting places. Others see that now is the time to invest in apprentices so they have qualified employees in place when we pull out of this credit crunch. Unfortunately budgetary problems at the LSC is messing a lot of people around.

Surely apprenticeships require a reasonable academic knowledge and achievement before being accepted.
I'm talking about getting potential deal-legs who have been failed by Ed Balls off the streets.
Re-educate them through structured discipline, and give them a purpose in life, and a gift at the end of it should they get that far.

Surely apprenticeships require a reasonable academic knowledge and achievement before being accepted.
I'm talking about getting potential deal-legs who have been failed by Ed Balls off the streets.
Re-educate them through structured discipline, and give them a purpose in life, and a gift at the end of it should they get that far.

The armed forces use the same funding channels and keyskill training programmes as any other apprenticeship program.

Gnasher wrote:The armed forces use the same funding channels and keyskill training programmes as any other apprenticeship program.

Brian, you are talking about apprenticeships.
I'm not.
What is the minimum qualification for general engineering or electrical apprenticeship?
Whatever it is, most school leavers will fall well short of it.
And anyway the majority of the Armed Forces join up as Generalists.
What they need is the encouragement to go for it.

Peter, anyone joining the armed forces is effectively an apprentice. They follow the same basic classroom training programmes as would an engineering apprentice at, say, Jaguar. Armed forces basic training is funded by the LSC.

What is the minimum qualification for general engineering or electrical apprenticeship?

You ask the question as if you know the answer so please do tell us then I'll tell you if you're right or not.

http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Be-An ... tions.aspx

5 GCSEs at grade G can get you onto an apprenticeship.

Peter wrote:What is the minimum qualification for general engineering or electrical apprenticeship?
Whatever it is, most school leavers will fall well short of it

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Most school leavers achieve grades well above what is required for most apprenticeships. Besides, you seem to be forgetting minimum leaving age is now 17 and it won't be too long before it's 18...

You can be taken on to be an apprentice with far less qualifications, a lot depends on age and circumstances. It might not be called an apprenticeship, there's other names for other programmes with similar outcomes. If you need additional training to reach the fixed starting point for an "apprenticeship", that's available as well. You should come to our national conference this week, you'll learn all about it.

Gnasher wrote:Peter, anyone joining the armed forces is effectively an apprentice. They follow the same basic classroom training programmes as would an engineering apprentice at, say, Jaguar. Armed forces basic training is funded by the LSC.

I accept I'm a bit out of touch.
But with entry into the Armed Forces comes a Period of Return of Service.
A Cook, for example, would have to give a Return of Service of perhaps 18 months from completion of 6 months training, whereas a Mechanical Engineering Apprentice would have to give at least 5 years from completion of his 3 years training.
So there is a vast difference. A Cook, being a Generalist would have to serve a minimum of 2 years ( 6 months + 18 months), whereas a "real" apprentice would have to serve a minimum of 8 years (3 years + 5 years).
As I say I'm out of touch, but I don't think I'm far out.

Gnasher wrote:What is the minimum qualification for general engineering or electrical apprenticeship?

You ask the question as if you know the answer so please do tell us then I'll tell you if you're right or not.

I honestly don't know. There isn't a general technical apprenticeship. They are focused.
But I suspect a Cook, who isn't an apprentice, can get into the Forces with a minimum academic standard, but shows aptitude at selection.
Whereas an air engineering or mechanical apprentice (not general engineer) would have to be already academically certified, and then vigorously tested throughout his apprenticeship.

How long until kick-off?

I accept I'm a bit out of touch.
But with entry into the Armed Forces comes a Period of Return of Service.
A Cook, for example, would have to give a Return of Service of perhaps 18 months from completion of 6 months training, whereas a Mechanical Engineering Apprentice would have to give at least 5 years from completion of his 3 years training.
So there is a vast difference. A Cook, being a Generalist would have to serve a minimum of 2 years ( 6 months + 18 months), whereas a "real" apprentice would have to serve a minimum of 8 years (3 years + 5 years).
As I say I'm out of touch, but I don't think I'm far out.

Your cook would be on a hospitality and catering course. Your mechanic would be on a mechanical engineering course. Both LSC funded, like a cook in a Morecambe cafe or a Jaguar mechanic. Both are "real" apprentices.

I honestly don't know. There isn't a general technical apprenticeship. They are focused.
But I suspect a Cook, who isn't an apprentice, can get into the Forces with a minimum academic standard, but shows aptitude at selection.
Whereas an air engineering or mechanical apprentice (not general engineer) would have to be already academically certified, and then vigorously tested throughout his apprenticeship.

Both would be tested for aptitude and both would be put on the relevant course. If either needed keyskills training to bring them up to certain levels, they'd get it.

Today, the same effort goes into making sure the people that feed the mechanics are as well trained as the mechanics themselves. Both of them come out of the army with recognised qualifications, the same qualifications you can get on civvy street.

And the Return of Service for a Cook is?
And the Return of Service for a Wardroom Steward is?
And the Return of Service for an Air Engineering Apprentice is?

The length and intensity of training, plus the return of service are the key ingredients.
The average Cook wouldn't get past Week 1 of an Air Engineering Apprentices Induction, whereas the latter,and with no disprest to the former, wouldn't even consider donning an apron in the first place.

PS. Brian, when I mention engineering apprentices I'm talking about Artificers, not Mechanics. There's a world of difference when it comes to knowledge and training.

Peter, we started this discussion around the subject of no prospects or ambition and you asked the question What's life like these days then for school leavers? My point is that life for a school leaver either in or out of the armed forces can be the same. I'm not sure where the length of time you have to stay in the armed forces comes into the discussion but surely that's an argument not to join?

Artificer? Which particular meaning? An enlisted man responsible for the upkeep of small arms and machine guns etc or a skilled worker who practices some trade or handicraft. The next time you take your Ka in for a service, let's hope you get more than your definition of a mechanic to service it.

The average Cook wouldn't get past Week 1 of an Air Engineering Apprentices Induction, whereas the latter,and with no disprest to the former, wouldn't even consider donning an apron in the first place.

Why would a cook want to be on AEAI (been there, met some of them, quite like the canteen they have on the edge of the airfield "Only Fools and Courses")? The point is that whatever their chosen career, the quality of training is the same and you don't need to be in the armed forces to get it.

I've got several mates who are in the armed forces. 2 in the army, one in the navy, one in the RAF and as Peter says, they tell me the opportunities and the money are very good.
What Peter doesn't tell you though is the stories about being out in the middle east getting shot at, seeing people being blown apart, living with day to day fear of being blown apart yourself and all this 1000's of miles away from your family and friends in a strange country!
Those of my friends that have served active service have not come back the same and I'm afraid to say that I am no longer anywhere near as close to them as I once was.
That is why you get to retire early, that is why you get a good pension, because it's a hard job that most wouldn't want to do.
If you feel you have no prospects I suggest you see Brian about what is available to you here before you start signing your life away.

If you feel you have no prospects I suggest you see Brian about what is available to you here before you start signing your life away

I don't work for a training provider, I work for a company that produces the software to manage the training.

Peter wrote:

Gnasher wrote:Peter, anyone joining the armed forces is effectively an apprentice. They follow the same basic classroom training programmes as would an engineering apprentice at, say, Jaguar. Armed forces basic training is funded by the LSC.

I accept I'm a bit out of touch.
But with entry into the Armed Forces comes a Period of Return of Service.
A Cook, for example, would have to give a Return of Service of perhaps 18 months from completion of 6 months training, whereas a Mechanical Engineering Apprentice would have to give at least 5 years from completion of his 3 years training.
So there is a vast difference. A Cook, being a Generalist would have to serve a minimum of 2 years ( 6 months + 18 months), whereas a "real" apprentice would have to serve a minimum of 8 years (3 years + 5 years).
As I say I'm out of touch, but I don't think I'm far out.

Gnasher wrote:What is the minimum qualification for general engineering or electrical apprenticeship?

You ask the question as if you know the answer so please do tell us then I'll tell you if you're right or not.

I honestly don't know. There isn't a general technical apprenticeship. They are focused.
But I suspect a Cook, who isn't an apprentice, can get into the Forces with a minimum academic standard, but shows aptitude at selection.
Whereas an air engineering or mechanical apprentice (not general engineer) would have to be already academically certified, and then vigorously tested throughout his apprenticeship.

How long until kick-off?

minimum return of service was 3 years when I left, 12 months for notice, tri band pay scales with incriments and tiffs still sat on their lardy arses. Unlike civvy street apprenticeships, forces get far more hands on from day one and that is across the board.