Shrimpsvoices

So the sale of the club drags on !

Think we better get used to the fact JW has no intention of selling the club
he’s just putting us into administration and declare bankruptcy and wiping his debts like he did at WW
Hope I’m wrong but that’s the scenario that seems to be panning out

And this is why the EFL should have more power,
they can see what’s happening but are powerless to stop it

glagys wrote:So the sale of the club drags on !

Think we better get used to the fact JW has no intention of selling the club
he’s just putting us into administration and declare bankruptcy and wiping his debts like he did at WW
Hope I’m wrong but that’s the scenario that seems to be panning out

And this is why the EFL should have more power,
they can see what’s happening but are powerless to stop it

Think you could be right and our BoDs seem unable to do anything to stop him.

By the sounds of recent interviews via the podcast at least 2 of our Directors keep repeating that things are moving. Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that they are just saying that in the hope that we the fans will stop asking questions but I do think that Jason keeps telling them that things are moving and that the Directors have to go along with what they are being fed by the crook.

I'm amazed but gratified that our BoDs have stuck it through all this time and full credit to them for doing so. I genuinely hope for their sake that a conclusion can be on the horizon but I'm beginning to think that the horizon is far, far away......

glagys wrote:So the sale of the club drags on !

Are you saying that because we're now into September 2024 and the alleged/proposed sale still hasn't gone through, or, have you heard that the latest alleged/proposed sale has collapsed? I thought the latest news was, there was something going to the EFL/with the EFL?

[b][/b]

glagys wrote:So the sale of the club drags on !

Think we better get used to the fact JW has no intention of selling the club
he’s just putting us into administration and declare bankruptcy and wiping his debts like he did at WW
Hope I’m wrong but that’s the scenario that seems to be panning out

And this is why the EFL should have more power,
they can see what’s happening but are powerless to stop it

I have posted before that bankruptcy was his way out to clear his debts !

sandgrown wrote:

glagys wrote:So the sale of the club drags on !

Think we better get used to the fact JW has no intention of selling the club
he’s just putting us into administration and declare bankruptcy and wiping his debts like he did at WW
Hope I’m wrong but that’s the scenario that seems to be panning out

And this is why the EFL should have more power,
they can see what’s happening but are powerless to stop it

I have posted before that bankruptcy was his way out to clear his debts !

Not saying you are wrong, but 'how?' He would have to somehow restructure his other businesses, so that their debt became our debt, then Morecambe FC goes bankrupt, leaving his other businesses debt free and [presumably] solvent? BUT, to do that, he'd need our Board of Directors to sign up to those other debts, which they'd never do. Even then, I'm not sure if he could legally manage that?

If Whittingham sacks our Board, so he can appoint his own stooges, or, our Board choose to all resign, then I'd be seriously worried, and feel the time to boycott games had arrived, but until then, I'm not convinced that is his tactic. I remain convinced that when they bought us, he thought Morecambe FC owned the land, as well as the buildings, in which case, we'd be a housing estate by now.

Keith wrote:

sandgrown wrote:

glagys wrote:So the sale of the club drags on !

Think we better get used to the fact JW has no intention of selling the club
he’s just putting us into administration and declare bankruptcy and wiping his debts like he did at WW
Hope I’m wrong but that’s the scenario that seems to be panning out

And this is why the EFL should have more power,
they can see what’s happening but are powerless to stop it

I have posted before that bankruptcy was his way out to clear his debts !

Not saying you are wrong, but 'how?' He would have to somehow restructure his other businesses, so that their debt became our debt, then Morecambe FC goes bankrupt, leaving his other businesses debt free and [presumably] solvent? BUT, to do that, he'd need our Board of Directors to sign up to those other debts, which they'd never do. Even then, I'm not sure if he could legally manage that?

If Whittingham sacks our Board, so he can appoint his own stooges, or, our Board choose to all resign, then I'd be seriously worried, and feel the time to boycott games had arrived, but until then, I'm not convinced that is his tactic. I remain convinced that when they bought us, he thought Morecambe FC owned the land, as well as the buildings, in which case, we'd be a housing estate by now.

Surely his solicitors would have picked that up? The land will be registered in the Christie Trust name and the buildings under Bond Group. Any solicitor would have seen that. If anyone wants to check that out they can get the title numbers from the Land Registry and the copies of the plans/ registered ownership etc for a fee.

Could be wrong (again ) but wasn't his partner in crime a Solicitor.....

Keith wrote:Not saying you are wrong, but 'how?' He would have to somehow restructure his other businesses, so that their debt became our debt, then Morecambe FC goes bankrupt, leaving his other businesses debt free and [presumably] solvent? BUT, to do that, he'd need our Board of Directors to sign up to those other debts, which they'd never do. Even then, I'm not sure if he could legally manage that?

Pretty sure there's a separate company, owned by Jason, which is lending the money to MFC, for which loans are being advanced by a lender, secured over the land and assets of MFC via legal charges.

A bit like PMG did with the 3g pitches and gym building.

If the loan repayments aren't made up the chain, the legal charge holder can call in administrators, to recover as much of their debt as possible, i.e. by selling the clubs land and assets to the highest bidder. Just as happened with the 3g/gym under PMG Leisure Ltd!

It may well be that Jason personally never invested anything in the first place, and just structured a deal to borrow money from a third party (bank etc) against the land and assets of MFC via a separate limited company.

In that case, he's literally nothing to lose by letting the club go into administration, all he'll lose is the future "profit" he makes between the intermediary company is paying to the lender and the inflated rate he charges MFC!

Heads he wins, tails we lose.

EDIT - it appears to be Bond Group Investments Limited, whose accounts show a 80% investment in MFC, financed by huge loans taken out to buy the club and then cover ongoing losses. Current deficit (i.e. loans and debts in excess of value of assets) over £2 million in debt - that's what is funding our ongoing losses!

redrobo wrote:Could be wrong (again ) but wasn't his partner in crime a Solicitor.....

He was a trainee and apparently never qualified, yet he passed the proper person test

https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-conte ... nistration.

redrobo wrote:Could be wrong (again ) but wasn't his partner in crime a Solicitor.....

No I don’t believe Golding was ever a registered Solicitor, that was the problem!!, that lead to them being disqualified as members of the BOD’s. Then JW either bought him out or the other guy resigned from the Bond Group and JW still is the only Director of the Bond Group and here we are.

KenH wrote:

Keith wrote:Not saying you are wrong, but 'how?' He would have to somehow restructure his other businesses, so that their debt became our debt, then Morecambe FC goes bankrupt, leaving his other businesses debt free and [presumably] solvent? BUT, to do that, he'd need our Board of Directors to sign up to those other debts, which they'd never do. Even then, I'm not sure if he could legally manage that?

Pretty sure there's a separate company, owned by Jason, which is lending the money to MFC, for which loans are being advanced by a lender, secured over the land and assets of MFC via legal charges.

A bit like PMG did with the 3g pitches and gym building.

If the loan repayments aren't made up the chain, the legal charge holder can call in administrators, to recover as much of their debt as possible, i.e. by selling the clubs land and assets to the highest bidder. Just as happened with the 3g/gym under PMG Leisure Ltd!

It may well be that Jason personally never invested anything in the first place, and just structured a deal to borrow money from a third party (bank etc) against the land and assets of MFC via a separate limited company.

In that case, he's literally nothing to lose by letting the club go into administration, all he'll lose is the future "profit" he makes between the intermediary company is paying to the lender and the inflated rate he charges MFC!

Heads he wins, tails we lose.

EDIT - it appears to be Bond Group Investments Limited, whose accounts show a 80% investment in MFC, financed by huge loans taken out to buy the club and then cover ongoing losses. Current deficit (i.e. loans and debts in excess of value of assets) over £2 million in debt - that's what is funding our ongoing losses!

To be fare it’s how many Clubs are financed JW has just got on the band wagon, so to speak.

KenH wrote:Pretty sure there's a separate company, owned by Jason, which is lending the money to MFC, for which loans are being advanced by a lender, secured over the land and assets of MFC via legal charges.

If the loan repayments aren't made up the chain, the legal charge holder can call in administrators, to recover as much of their debt as possible, i.e. by selling the clubs land and assets to the highest bidder. Just as happened with the 3g/gym under PMG Leisure Ltd!

But it would be fraud, to secure a loan against the land. That would be like me taking out a loan, secured against someone else's house. The administrators still couldn't sell the land, as it isn't Morecambe FC's asset.

Billy bodger wrote:No I don’t believe Golding was ever a registered Solicitor, that was the problem!!, that lead to them being disqualified as members of the BOD’s.

Exactly. I wonder if they were so arrogant, moronic or incompetent enough, that they believed they could act as solicitors themselves, even though not qualified, and that's where they messed up?

"Mr Goldring admitted misconduct in relation to offering a banking facility, making unauthorised payments to third parties, and due diligence and anti-money laundering failures, which also included not identifying Client A as potentially a politically exposed person.

Further, in relation to another client, Mr Goldring admitted signing a settlement agreement in an employment dispute that “falsely and misleadingly” purported to confirm he was “a relevant independent legal advisor”, when, as an unadmitted person, he was not".

https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-n ... r-failures

glagys wrote:So the sale of the club drags on !

Think we better get used to the fact JW has no intention of selling the club
he’s just putting us into administration and declare bankruptcy and wiping his debts like he did at WW
Hope I’m wrong but that’s the scenario that seems to be panning out

And this is why the EFL should have more power,
they can see what’s happening but are powerless to stop it

If this is the case then I wish he’d just get on with it now so we can end this and start again.

Keith wrote:But it would be fraud, to secure a loan against the land. That would be like me taking out a loan, secured against someone else's house. The administrators still couldn't sell the land, as it isn't Morecambe FC's asset.

Not if the MFC Limited has agreed the legal charge, which would be usual when wanting a loan. JW could have "instructed" the Board to sign the legal charge agreement, as afterall, he owns and controls the club.

MFC Limited on Companies House shows 5 registered charges, including 2 to " Charles Street Commercial Investments Limited" which would appear to be in security for the loans advanced by JW's company formed for the purpose of buying the club.

So if that company goes bust, Charles Street Commercial Investments Limited will have first dibs on the land, leasehold and equipment etc.

Nothing fraud about it as long as the legal charges have been properly drafted, signed and lodged with Co House, as they appear to have been.

Just seen on Facecloth (finally bit the bullet) that Lizzi Collinge has got herself on the All Party Parliamentary Group for Football Supporters, with direct reference in her post to the the club and the Trust.

KenH wrote:Not if the MFC Limited has agreed the legal charge

But Morecambe FC don't own the land, so they can't do that either. The land is 'held' by the 'Christie Trust'. The sale of land to Sainsbury's required approval at Government Office level.

Keith wrote:

KenH wrote:Not if the MFC Limited has agreed the legal charge

But Morecambe FC don't own the land, so they can't do that either. The land is 'held' by the 'Christie Trust'. The sale of land to Sainsbury's required approval at Government Office level.

MFC do own some of the parcels of land around the Trust land, they also own the buildings on the Trust land, they also own the lease to use the land and have build buildings on it, as allowed by the lease granted by the Trust to MFC Limited.

A potential outcome is that the administrators grant a lease to use the buildings, i.e. shop, hospitality suite, bar, etc to someone for use other than football, and just leave "community sports" being done on the pitch itself. Then sell the land around the trust land for other purposes such as housing (I don't think the trust land includes one of the car parks for example). All depends on the Trust deed and the lease given to MFC by the trust of course. The devil will be in the detail of the exact wording of the Christie Trust deed and the lease! But I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility, that the only "sports" on the site would be use of the pitch itself via an access road to comply with the terms of the Christie trust, and the buildings and some of the surrounding land used for other purposes, completely unconnected to MFC nor sport at all.

KenH wrote:[
A potential outcome is that the administrators grant a lease to use the buildings, i.e. shop, hospitality suite, bar, etc to someone for use other than football, and just leave "community sports" being done on the pitch itself. Then sell the land around the trust land for other purposes such as housing (I don't think the trust land includes one of the car parks for example). All depends on the Trust deed and the lease given to MFC by the trust of course. The devil will be in the detail of the exact wording of the Christie Trust deed and the lease! But I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility, that the only "sports" on the site would be use of the pitch itself via an access road to comply with the terms of the Christie trust, and the buildings and some of the surrounding land used for other purposes, completely unconnected to MFC nor sport at all.

Yes, I think that is a real concern. I've asked in the past, what would happen if the club folded, what access we'd have for a 'phoenix club'? For example, would the 'Berlin Wall' and stands behind the goal be accessible to fans, if the Trust doesn't own the actual 'structure'? The main stand would either, as you suggest, be used for other purposes, if that's possible, or, get signed over to The Christie Trust, but then, they'd be responsible for the upkeep. Or, simply crumble away, until they become unsafe? None of those options are great. But, that all said, because of the complexities involved, I doubt if the land could have been put up as surety for any loans, unless 'miss-represented'?