O/T Gaza

[redrobo]

Nobody would disagree that Israel has a right to defend itself following the murderous acts of 7 October.

But the mass killings of innocent civilians in their search for terrorists is for me a step too far.

When did a bomb dropped from a height ever distinguish between a civilian and a terrorist.....

The Israels are just as guilty of war crimes as the terrorists that they are after but too many Governments are not prepared to say it and by refusing to call for a cease fire are encouraging a continuance of the tragedy for those innocent families who are living in fear day by day.

Recent videos released by the IDF attempt to prove that the weapons found are an indication that hospitals are being used by the terrorists as staging posts for the war against Israel.

Could it be that those weapons found have been placed by the IDF themselves to give credence to their claims....particularly after it was pointed out that the same area in which weapons had been found suddenly produced even more weapons in exactly the same place.....

Every nation has the right to defend its people BUT Israel has gone too far and even if they succeed in eradicating the current bunch of terrorists the hate amongst the youth in Gaz will only increase the possibility of a new bread of terrorists as they seek revenge for the murder of their loved ones....and who could blame them....

[Scouseport_Shrimp]

Why not just concentrate on the UK.....aren't we sleepwalking into our own Armageddon in the name of race, religion, and greed?

Labour seem to be odds-on to win the next General Election in this country, yet their leader is refusing to do as you ask.....and you might say vote for Reform then. Well, Reform simply ain't big enough, so a vote for them is simply a vote for Liebour, and we all know what that means.

It's a mess, the whole world is in a mess....Mother Earth will be the winner, probably sooner than we expect.

[Keith]

Labour seem to be odds-on to win the next General Election in this country, yet their leader is refusing to do as you ask... ...and you might say vote for Green Party then. Well, the Green Party simply ain't big enough, so a vote for them is simply a vote for Labour, and we all know what that means.

It's a mess, the whole world is in a mess.

We're at the opposite end of the political spectrum, yet I find myself close to agreement with you. Starmer is a fundamentalist Zionist, whose wife & children are Jew. He openly supported Israeli government's war crimes and only stepped slightly back from those comments, ten days later, due to the backlash. He knows that state-sanctioned terrorism can only last for so long, before international pressure brings it to a halt, so he won't condemn it. The Israeli government are less bothered about how many children they kill, more about the destruction of the infrastructure. They've already made over a million people internal refugees, now they are telling them to move again. Not only property destroyed, hospitals bombed, but power, sewerage & water systems will have been damaged beyond repair.

The heinous attacks on October 7th were carried out by utter, sub-human scum. But the revenge by the Israeli government is worse. This nonsense about Israel “defending herself,” through collective punishment, is a lie. The Hamas leadership are not in Gaza, they are living in luxury, as 'guests' of the Qatari government. They probably went there to watch the World Cup and stayed. Unless Israel is going to war with Qatar, they will not 'cut off the head' of Hamas.

[Phil Anderer]

Keith, I think it was you who raised the point about who is a Semite. I did a very shallow dive into it, and if I understand it right, you genuinely can't be pro-Palestine and antisemitic, since basically all Arabs are Semites. It's as if it's an identity the Israelis have tried to appropriate for themselves. Please don't get me wrong, what Hamas did just over a month ago was awful, but I do feel Israeli actions, particularly in the West Bank, were a contributory factor. I'm not remotely anti-Jew, but I am against unnecessary aggression, hardline right wing politics and racism, and most of all, I'm anti-intolerance (unless it's something like Mrs A's wheat intolerance which is entirely different). I've long said, in relation to problems like the Israel/Palestine situation, there are no easy answers to difficult questions.

[Gone_Shrimping]

Keith, I think it was you who raised the point about who is a Semite. I did a very shallow dive into it, and if I understand it right, you genuinely can't be pro-Palestine and antisemitic, since basically all Arabs are Semites. It's as if it's an identity the Israelis have tried to appropriate for themselves. Please don't get me wrong, what Hamas did just over a month ago was awful, but I do feel Israeli actions, particularly in the West Bank, were a contributory factor. I'm not remotely anti-Jew, but I am against unnecessary aggression, hardline right wing politics and racism, and most of all, I'm anti-intolerance (unless it's something like Mrs A's wheat intolerance which is entirely different). I've long said, in relation to problems like the Israel/Palestine situation, there are no easy answers to difficult questions.

Beheading babies , raping and murdering women then parading their bodies while urinating over them , posting videos of executions on Facebook for their relatives to see etc etc. Bit worse than awful I think !

[Keith]

who is a Semite... ...you genuinely can't be pro-Palestine and antisemitic, since basically all Arabs are Semites. It's as if it's an identity the Israelis have tried to appropriate for themselves.

I have said it in the past, but I think Doc said it recently.

The Israeli fundamentalist Zionists have also very cleverly, over many years, managed to conflate any criticism of the Israeli government with 'antisemitism'. This has been a very successful tactic to lessen dissent of the Israeli government's apartheid. It was particularly successful when attacking Corbyn. There was zero evidence that Corbyn is antisemitic, in fact, quite the opposite, as he has many supporters & friends who are liberal Jews. But there were Jewish people within the Labour Party who would rather have a Johnson Prime Minister, than Corbyn. By removing him, and supporting a Johnson government, they stopped any future challenges against the Israeli government.

Another difficult term is Zionist. If you believe in the right of the Israeli state to exist, then, by definition, you are a "Zionist", as that is the literal meaning. However, fundamentalist 'Zionists' believe in 'from the river to the sea', a trope that is highly offensive when used by Palestinians and their supporters, but acceptable when fundamentalist Jews say the same thing. Right wing Zionists want to wipe Palestine from the map entirely. I believe that was always the intention of this latest massacre of innocent people and the destruction of Gaza. This week, Israel's Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said that Gaza could not survive as an independent entity and it would be better for Palestinians there to leave for other countries. He supported a call by two members of the Israeli parliament who wrote in a Wall Street Journal editorial, that Western countries should accept Gazan families who expressed a desire to relocate. This is a call for ethnic cleansing by a senior member of the Israeli government. Starmer clearly support's this.

Braverman stated that her husband is a "proud Zionist" and they have relatives in the Israeli Defence Force, before saying that marches calling for an end to the slaughter were "hate marches".

The new Foreign Secretary, when he was in his old job, was described as "the most pro-Israeli Prime Minister, ever".

Starmer, whose wife & children are Jewish, and who observes Jewish traditions, literally supported the Israeli government's war crimes of cutting off water, and has refused to condemn the slaughter, saying the killing of 4,000+ children is "self-defence" and sacking any Shadow Cabinet Members who dare to say differently.

Have you noticed another subtlety? The Labour spokespeople repeatedly say that the pressure for MP's to support a ceasefire 'comes from those MP's who have a substantial Muslim constituency'. Basically, they are saying that anyone who wants the slaughter to end is doing so because they are Muslim or Muslim supporters, and by therefore, by extension, supported the crimes against humanity of October 7th.

This is a genocide, and both major parties in the British Parliament are complicit.