Shrimpsvoices

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:06 pm**

If anybody has read J.B. Christie's orbituary you will notice that although he was a buisness man with MCMBE F.C. at heart, he was also a philanthropist, with a love for the town. He gave readily to many causes over his time in Morecambe, one such being Christie Park. I do not think at the time of the Trust being given to MCMBE F.C. he ever envisaged the ground being turned into a retail site, regardless of the potential in monetary value, hence reverting to recreational land for the people of the town.
A question now. If this is what he would have wanted, why did the club go to the High Court to have the Trust moved to Westgate in what seems to have been a cloak of secrecy. Perhaps they did not want any objectors?

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:11 pm**

Can anybody print JB Christies exact and unedited wishes on here so we can all see what he meant or did not mean regarding the trust??

I think the trust being moved to westgate rather than just sacked off shows that the board were putting the long term future of MFC (the team, not the chicken outlet) first!!

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:29 pm**

The wishes and ideals of someone in the 1920's are vastly different to those of today so who can actually say the move to Westgate is what he would want. Yes, a new ground or an updated Christie is what we all want, but the underhand tactics being used are not really of benefit to anyone. A case in point ,the ground sold off before season started and waiting 'till the last few weeks to announce it, followed by embargo on transfer dealings etc because of lack of finances.
By the way, where will all the new supporters be coming from to fill this new stadium. Does anybody know people who will stop going to the Premiership to watch us? Two games max out of curiosity and if we carry on performing next season as we are now, possibly never.

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:37 pm**

Gave up on premier league football 3 years ago and started watching shrimps two years ago either i have seen the light or i am not wired right but i know which one i now prefer and thats coming up to christie. I know that the football is not of the standard of the premier league but i feel that the honesty of the players far outweighs any thing the so called superstars have to offer. Keep the faith people

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:46 pm**

Skaboy wrote:If this is what he would have wanted, why did the club go to the High Court to have the Trust moved to Westgate in what seems to have been a cloak of secrecy. Perhaps they did not want any objectors?

I would have been far more concerned if the board hadn't fully checked out the legality of such a move and I would have considered them incompetent to the extreme had they publicly stated what they were doing before the deal was finalised.

If you consider JB Christie had the well-being of Morecambe Football Club at heart, and you consider that the move will make the future of Morecambe FC more secure, then you will fully support the board and the move. If on the other hand, you believe that JB Christie was more interested in the land upon which the club currently stands over the well being of the club itself, then you will naturally object. Personally, I believe that JB Christie would fully support the actions of the board.

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:50 pm**

I think Skaboy is questioning what they see as a cloak of secrecy around the high court proceedings. I just wish I'd known about it when the papers were in someone's magazine rack for three months

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 pm**

stephen wrights notes from last time out

"Since our last home match, Christie Park has played host to a press conference at which we announced details of its sale to Sainsbury’s who hope to build a new store here in 2010.

Whilst we have been delighted with the positive feedback since the announcement, it should be noted that we are ever conscious of the tradition of playing here, the impact of a new development upon the immediate area and the legacy of J B Christie. More of that later.

In the meantime it is important to recognise that, whilst we are officers for Morecambe Football Club Limited, we have to achieve what is best for this club. Sainsbury’s have agreed to buy the land without planning permission and will pay us in advance so we have funds with which to build our new home, new businesses and new community development at Westgate. Believe me, this is a great deal.

We are firmly of the view that the experienced team at Sainsbury’s recognise the concerns of local residents and businesses. I expect their consultation process now to do this and in the future I expect to see much wider community benefits if Sainsbury’s can deliver a scheme which satisfies local residents and the planners. However, that is very much a matter for Sainsbury’s and though we anticipate a long and fruitful relationship, we must now focus on our own development.

As for the tradition of Christie Park, I think most people recognise that our continued development depends on this move. We simply cannot deliver such a project here (we examined that possibility first and found that we would have increased debt as a result). I like grounds with individual character and Christie Park certainly has this but I genuinely believe we will all enjoy and appreciate the individual character of our new development in 2010 and for many years beyond.

As for Mr Christie, please be assured we have researched thoroughly and given great thought and sensitive consideration to his wishes. I have been asked many times regarding the “covenants” on the land here. The short answer is that there aren’t any. The long answer is as follows:
• the land is held on trust subject to along lease to Morecambe FC (free of charge)
• the trust was created by a gift from Joseph Barnes Christie who sought to secure a place for Morecambe FC to play in the future. Mr Christie had bailed out the club many times and was concerned what would happen after he had gone. He bought the land in 1924 and gave it to the trustees in 1928, shortly before his death in1929.
• His intention was to safeguard Morecambe F C, not specifically this particular piece of land
• The move to Westgate includes a moving of the trust on the same terms as currently exist. It has been approved by Lancaster city Council, the Treasury Solicitors, the Secretary of State, the Charity Commissioners and finally the High Court last year. All are satisfied that we have put into effect (and beyond) the wishes of J B Christie and the purpose of his gift.

Suffice to say, we are delighted with the deal for the whole of Morecambe and now look forward to completing our second year in the Football League before entering our historic final year ever at Christie Park."

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:58 pm**

To be honest, I wish people would change the record. The move is good for the club, end of story!!!!!! I don't think it should matter what someone who will have been eaten by worms years ago might have thought about. What we do know is it won't be upsetting him cause he's not around anymore. Move is good for the club, leave it at that.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:35 am**

Skaboy wrote:If this is what he would have wanted, why did the club go to the High Court to have the Trust moved to Westgate in what seems to have been a cloak of secrecy. Perhaps they did not want any objectors?

As I understand it the only people who had a real say in this were the people who, thro the years, has been given the job of looking after JBs wishes - the Trustees. Theyv been fully consulted and it was them who joined the club in wanting this toi go to the high court to sort it all out and make sure its been done properly. No secrecy at all - theyve done what is right and proper.

Of course someone wantiung to stir things up might try to twist it a different way but i don't know why any Morecambe fan would want to do that. no-one can say for certain what the old lad would defenbitely have weanted to do in the present day circumstances - what we do know is that he was a big Morecambe fan and had propped them up with his own cash for years. also he bought the land so that he cpould GIVE it to the club. he could have bought more land and given it to the town but he didnt.

Anyway - thats not for you or me to think about - it's up to the trustees. If they are more than happy about it and think its what JB would of wanted thats the end of the story and anyone trying to stir it up again is doing just that - stirring.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:05 pm**

Who are the trustees?

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:19 pm**

Skaboy wrote:he was a buisness man (sic) with MCMBE (sic) F.C. at heart

The only thing you said correctly in your post. He cared first and foremost about the survival of Morecambe FC. The land was a means to an end - the progress, success and existence of Morecambe FC. The Trust moves from Christie Park to the new ground and his ideals, aims and objectives remain wholly intact.

If you had bothered to do a tenth of the research that people close to the issue (the club, trustees, journalists etc.) have you might start to understand the topics.

Taking the matter to the High Court showed the seriousness with which this issue was taken and how critical it was to ensure that an independent judge felt certain that JB Christie's wishes were met. They were and they will continue to be.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:34 pm**

Who are the trustees?

Well done Mr Gnasher thats a very good question.

Keith wrote:-
If you consider JB Christie had the well-being of Morecambe Football Club at heart, and you consider that the move will make the future of Morecambe FC more secure, then you will fully support the board and the move. If on the other hand, you believe that JB Christie was more interested in the land upon which the club currently stands over the well being of the club itself, then you will naturally object. Personally, I believe that JB Christie would fully support the actions of the board

I think JBC had the well being of both Morecambe FC and the community of Morecambe at heart. That is backed up by his action of leaving Christie Park and the surrounding land jointly to Morecambe FC and the Corporation (the Towns Council who are elected to put the interests of the town and local ratepayers interests first).

Personally both myself and Truth dont believe that JBC would support what is going in here because in our opinion the local community will have lost more than they have gained and Morecambe FC is no longer a community run football club as it was when JBC was around.

It is a sad fact that both Morecambe FC and Lancaster City Council have carried out no adequate consultation with the local community on their proposals.

Do the right thing Morecambe FC, build on your outstanding success on the field of play, improve Christie Park as you started doing with the North stand and invest in the team and top quality coaching at grassroots level and within the local community. Thats what JBC would have wanted.

To undertake such a huge financial risk with such development proposals for only a 6,800 capacity new stadium is madness and in our opinion commercial suicide unless finance is coming from other sources and freebies are being given (re: publicly owned land: Westgate).

BTW a question from Truth:-

Have the club commissioned a thorough site investigation report of the Westgate site so that they can budget for the design requirements of the substructure and drainage works?(Blackpool FC failed to do this and already they have substantial increased unbudgeted costs to contend with).

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:50 pm**

Why do people insist on repeating the same arguments when they've already been satisfactorally answered.

Firstly the club have made it clear that redeveloping christie park isn't a financially viable option both because of the initial cost that would cause the club to have increased debts which could cause all sorts of issues, and the real lack of potential non matchday revenue streams that Christie Park has to offer.

And I think that the suggestion that JB Christie wouldn't want the club to move to a ground where it can gain revenue, secure it's future and not go into debt is absurd. Especially when the upshot of the move is creating a supermarket that is going to provide many jobs for people of morecambe over the next few years (during construction and upon completion), which especially considering the current economic situation is pretty damn good as well.

Tell me what JB Christie's going to disagree with? The extra jobs? Good training facilities for the team and for members of the public? Fewer debts? Morecambe FC being successful and remaining a league team for the foreseeable future?

Seriously, if you're not playing devils advocate then you're just a serial complainer who I've got no time for.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:19 pm**

Trinity wrote:
Do the right thing Morecambe FC, build on your outstanding success on the field of play, improve Christie Park as you started doing with the North stand and invest in the team and top quality coaching at grassroots level and within the local community. Thats what JBC would have wanted.

With what money?

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:22 pm**

campdave wrote:
Trinity wrote:
Do the right thing Morecambe FC, build on your outstanding success on the field of play, improve Christie Park as you started doing with the North stand and invest in the team and top quality coaching at grassroots level and within the local community. Thats what JBC would have wanted.

With what money?

not to mention the little matter of a car wash company with a long lease slap bang in the middle of where a new stand for that side would be !

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:28 pm**

Personally both myself and Truth dont believe that JBC would support what is going in here because in our opinion the local community will have lost more than they have gained and Morecambe FC is no longer a community run football club as it was when JBC was around.

The club is far more of a community club than it ever has been and this has been recognised at the highest level with awards for their community projects.

It is a sad fact that both Morecambe FC and Lancaster City Council have carried out no adequate consultation with the local community on their proposals.

How would you know? Do you live in the local community and by that I mean within striking distance of the ground? I think I can safely speak for some people living in the very local community that they back the project and look forward to Sainsburys immediately across the road from their house.

Do the right thing Morecambe FC, build on your outstanding success on the field of play, improve Christie Park as you started doing with the North stand and invest in the team and top quality coaching at grassroots level and within the local community. Thats what JBC would have wanted.

The trust only covers provision of land, there's no cash allowance so where would the funds come from to develop Christie Park?

To undertake such a huge financial risk with such development proposals for only a 6,800 capacity new stadium is madness and in our opinion commercial suicide unless finance is coming from other sources and freebies are being given (re: publicly owned land: Westgate).

Any land they have bought has been bought at current commercial rates. Finance is coming from Sainsburys. Ongoing revenue will be generated by the 24/7 facilities at the new ground in addition to matchday revenue. When the new ground is built and Sainsburys open, MFC will owe no one. And you call that commercial suicide!

Only 6,800? That's 3 times our current average attendance. That's not a sign of madness, it proves their sanity.

Your freebies comment obviously comes from a lack of research and your personal problems with the council. MFC have no such problems and deal with the council on a legal and professional basis.

On Thursday (May 1) members of the council's cabinet gave the green light to proposals to sell council land on Westgate to Morecambe Football Club. The agreement, which is subject to the club gaining planning permission, will enable the building of a 6,800 capacity stadium on the land along with associated facilities.

http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/News.asp?id=SX9452-A780E346

I'm going to start charging for being your research assistant :lol:

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:07 pm**

Mr Gnasher wrote:

I'm going to start charging for being your research assistant

Thank you for the offer; could you copy and paste the councils advertisement; the public open invitation to tender a bid for the the land at Westgate then Mr Gnasher. :lol:

Maybe Sainsburys would have put in a higher bid?

BTW skaboy

A question now. If this is what he would have wanted, why did the club go to the High Court to have the Trust moved to Westgate in what seems to have been a cloak of secrecy. Perhaps they did not want any objectors?

thats a very good question, observation and point.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:45 pm**

Trinity wrote:
Maybe Sainsburys would have put in a higher bid?

Or they may have put in a bid from their "basics" range! :roll:

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:47 pm**

Trinity wrote:
Who are the trustees?

Well done Mr Gnasher thats a very good question.

How patronising.

Trinity wrote:I think JBC had the well being of both Morecambe FC and the community of Morecambe at heart. That is backed up by his action of leaving Christie Park and the surrounding land jointly to Morecambe FC and the Corporation (the Towns Council who are elected to put the interests of the town and local ratepayers interests first).

Get your facts right. He bought the land for the football club. The only involvement of the council was if the football club went bust. In this instance the land would be transferred to the council so it could be used by as a sporting ground or recreation.

His whole point was for the benefit of the football club. He didn't like the corporation as documents clearly show.

Trinity wrote:Personally both myself and Truth dont believe that JBC would support what is going in here because in our opinion the local community will have lost more than they have gained.

Comments like that need some supporting information to be taken seriously. You don't because you can't back up your ill-thought point. I will.

Christie Park - No community facilities
Westgate - Three five-a-side pitches, full size all weather pitch, tennis courts, basketball court all available to the community (plus enhanced facilities for Westgate Wanderers)

Trinity wrote:Morecambe FC is no longer a community run football club as it was when JBC was around.

If you hadn't noticed JB Christie was a businessman and so are the people running Morecambe FC. The ground was then owned in trust, it still is now and will be in future.

Morecambe Community Sports, the charity established by Morecambe FC employs 13 staff to take sport out to all parts of our community. Other club directors are actively involved as school governors and trustees of charities. The club continues to work with volunteers, as I know the directors themselves are.

I understand the need to ask questions of these proposals. However, your comments are always phrased with an underlying malice. You twist everything to meet an agenda bourn of your loathing and hatred of anyone with any power or decision-making capacity.

At first its tedious but then you realise its actually a lot more insidious, nasty and all-pervading. Then you begin to wonder how other people are taken in by your persistent negativity. It really is thoroughly depressing.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:51 pm**

Thank you for the offer; could you copy and paste the councils advertisement; the public open invitation to tender a bid for the the land at Westgate then Mr Gnasher.

Are you sure it's Mrs Truth we're dealing with and she's not just typing her husband's replies? The style of avoiding any questions and twisting other people's comments is very familiar. If the deal had to go to public tender then I'm sure it would have. However, I trust the council and club solicitors have acted in our best interests in this deal and if you think otherwise, the offer to set you up with a blog is still there. I suggest any further comments are directed to the council's solicitors, I believe you are familiar with them already.

You could also apologise for the offence caused by your allegation that the council have given council land away to Morecambe FC.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:06 pm**

Gnasher wrote:

I suggest any further comments are directed to the council's solicitors, I believe you are familiar with them already.

Doyou not remember what Sam told you in your last personal attack on me Mr Gnasher - grow up.

Never had any dealings with the councils solicitors Mr Gnasher so your inference that we have sucks. It really is appalling and matches the dishonesty of Mr Posh's allegations against my hubby Truth making nuisance and abusive phone calls at his home address. But like Truth says you are incapable of playing the ball, only the man and only capable of shooting the messenger so you can keep the local public in the dark of the whole truth.

If the Council wish to take us to court for asking perfectly reasonable questions of public accountability, like how much did they sell the land at Westgate for and can they demonstrate that they sold it for the best price on the open market - get them to make a public announcement of the date, time and venue of the hearing and we'll be there.

As far as we are aware its not illegal to ask questions concerning public accountability in the UK. Just like its not illegal for skaboy to asK;-

A question now. If this is what he would have wanted, why did the club go to the High Court to have the Trust moved to Westgate in what seems to have been a cloak of secrecy. Perhaps they did not want any objectors?

or

By the way, where will all the new supporters be coming from to fill this new stadium

.

Or punkisdead to make this request:-

Can anybody print JB Christies exact and unedited wishes on here so we can all see what he meant or did not mean regarding the trust??

Or to ask whats the certainty of gaining revenue from purely revenue seeking speculative ventures like a hotel, etc?

We trust that there is no public money involved in any of the three sites:- Christie Park, Westgate or St Georges Playing field at Heysham when it has not been approved by a majority of local ratepayers.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:19 pm**

Your inference that the council gave land to MFC sucks. Yet again avoiding questions choosing to pick on selective statements to further your crusade. It used to be amusing to wind you up, now you're getting boring.

And as I have asked elsewhere, who have I offended? You intentionally choose to remain anonymous therefore I might have only offended a pair of faceless aliases on a football forum.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:40 pm**

Sue, if you or Stephen give a rats arse about Morecambe Football Club, you could have managed the two miles from your home to go and watch the game, then you may have had something positive to say about the football club instead of sniping at the council under the pretext of this forum.

Now go set up that un-moderated, freedom of speech forum that you believe the town desperately needs, where you can talk conspiracy until the cows come home, or actually, occasionally post something that is actually to do with the football club.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:46 pm**

Trinity wrote:
its not illegal for skaboy to asK;-

A question now. If this is what he would have wanted, why did the club go to the High Court to have the Trust moved to Westgate in what seems to have been a cloak of secrecy. Perhaps they did not want any objectors?

And that's been answered - you just ignored the answer

or

By the way, where will all the new supporters be coming from to fill this new stadium
.

Who says its going to be filled - are you daft? Do you sugest making it just 3,000 then if we get a big game we cant acomodate any extra fans??? How m,any clubs at our level fill their grounds to capacity - answer NONE.

Or punkisdead to make this request:-

Can anybody print JB Christies exact and unedited wishes on here so we can all see what he meant or did not mean regarding the trust??

ive only seen paper reports from the time (i assume the actual will is in the hands of the trustees in charge of it) but one thing it does say is the land only gojng to the corporation if the club 'ceases to exist'

Or to ask whats the certainty of gaining revenue from purely revenue seeking speculative ventures like a hotel, etc?

Wot busines is that of yours, or mine, or anyones other than those taking that risk - the clubs directors?

We trust that there is no public money involved in any of the three sites:- Christie Park, Westgate or St Georges Playing field at Heysham when it has not been approved by a majority of local ratepayers.

You may trust that - id see it as money well spent - even if they gave the land for nowt at westgate to OUR towns football club so they could build some great new sports facilities for OUR town it would be a great decision by them on behalf of the town. If they asked every single householder in the town in person if they thought that was a good thing to do and the vast majorty said yes -which i think they would - then would you stop whining?? People know the lands gone to the club and - aside from some who have genuine concerns cos they live right next to it (and not all of them object) pretty much everyone else ive heard talk about it thinks its a great idea - football fans or not. ive not heard any great protesting going on. Anyway go and ask the club - their decent people, they'll tell you - I think the club IS paying for it all but like i say im not sure and im not botherd its money well spent whatever.
Now go on twist all that about, ive had enough.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:48 pm**

I do not live in Morecambe but I am a fan of M.F.C. Looking at this with a third eye I cannot see what the problem is. The Trustees obviously see the situation as win win and their judgment has been rubber stamped. If M.F.C evaporated overnight and a great track of land became available,would L.C.C. turn it in to a recreation area for the locals ? I think not.
You two might be better venting your spleen on the closure of the dome or helping get the Winter Gardens back on the road,rather than coming on what is primarily a FOOTBALL FANS
forum arguing about what a gentleman MIGHT have done where he alive,well in this respect he is alive in the form of The Trustees and thy have spoken. Go out and buy some wool. :roll:

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