Shrimpsvoices

N H S

Talk about backtracking, NHS is doing better than ever, condemmed wanto to screw it

Him and his mates will make a fortune in contracts though.

Its becoming more Them and Us everyday with this lot.

I agree, the NHS seems to be doing great atm at the moment , for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvE0Z5HjkI

Just be glad you don't work in a PCT like I do....

First reebok, now the PCT I've been kicked out of the same building twice now

The very same NHS that was forced to close almost the entire Wards at the Westmorland in Kendal only to lease them back to the private sector during the reigns of Presidents Blare and Brown!

Let's face it, it really doesn't matter which lot are in, both can't help but keep changing things.

'If it aint broke, don't fix it' is something that Governments of both colours could well do to remember.

durhamshrimp wrote:Him and his mates will make a fortune in contracts though.
Its becoming more Them and Us everyday with this lot.

Shame the Coalition had to take on a £Trillion debt from Mr Brown though.
I keep reading reference to Brown and 'scorched earth policy' which gathered momentum when he realised the end was in sight.

Peter wrote:Shame the Coalition had to take on a £Trillion debt from Mr Brown though.

Surely that's Lloyds TSB, Royal Bank of Scotland, Bradford & Bingley, Northern Rock and Alliance & Leicester. Or did I imagine there was a global financial banking crisis that meant everyone of the Western economies having to bail out a large number of their banks?

Our debt ratios (debt to GDP) under Brown and now are still lower than any G7 economy bar Germany.

With regards to the NHS I think people should be aware of what's about to happen. Now you may agree with it, be against it or don't believe it's going to happen but this is my view and we'll see what actually takes place.

Tories: We're scrapping PCTs (Primary Care Trusts) so we can put decisions into the hands of your local GP, the person who knows you best and means decisions at a truly local level.

My view: In Hiillindon, West London, they're one of the test areas. Three PCTs are being abolished and one super-commissioning body has been appointed. This takes the process further away from GPs. The new body is not an NHS body an American healthcare firm. A form of privatisation already.

Tories: We're getting rid of unneeded beauracrats and expensive managers.

My view: PCT managers are (and will in future) being made redundant with big pay-offs, often as much or more than a year's salary. They are then being reappointed to a GP commissioning body the next day. Hundreds of millions will be spent on redundancies only to see these people running exactly the same services.

Tories: There will be no change to the running of the rest of the NHS bar improvements we've already announced.

My view: An organisation called Monitor, which oversees the commissioning of services has been told specifically that commissioning bodies must tender those services to multiple provides and take the best deal. Let's say Grandma needs a hip replacement - a fairly straight forward procedure. GP tells his American owned commissioning body to buy the procedure. American firm gives two choices the RLI and a private hospital in Preston owned by exactly the same American firm.

They go with the American firm because they massively undercut the NHS by doing this work for a loss. This continues until your local hospital has to stop offering the same procedure. Eventually local publically owned hospitals only undertake accident and emergency and high risk procedure forcing the hospital to close. The American hospital then increases its prices massively so it can recoup its losses and build massive profits.

Within 10 years the NHS will be a purchasing body at the GP stage. Everything else will be private. Private firms, like the big american one, will then offer insurance so that you can jump lengthening queues. Eventually getting an operation on the NHS will be a nightmare and the only option will be to go private. Finally the complete privatisation of the NHS. The poor getting no care and medical expenses dominating our lives.

This is happening right now.

Posh sums up pretty much the thoughts of a lot of the PCT managers I work with. "Privatisation through the back door" is a phrase I keep hearing at work.

I would also like to know how the private sector is going to create all these new jobs for everyone, I would one sure as hell need to know!!

Posh wrote:

Peter wrote:Shame the Coalition had to take on a £Trillion debt from Mr Brown though.

Surely that's Lloyds TSB, Royal Bank of Scotland, Bradford & Bingley, Northern Rock and Alliance & Leicester. Or did I imagine there was a global financial banking crisis that meant everyone of the Western economies having to bail out a large number of their banks?

Our debt ratios (debt to GDP) under Brown and now are still lower than any G7 economy bar Germany.

We all know the Banks cocked things up a had to be bailed out but how does that explain the overspends in individual government departments?

Can the banks be blamed for the overspend at the Ministry of Defence for example?

P/T Indie wrote:Can the banks be blamed for the overspend at the Ministry of Defence for example?

Incredible as it may sound they can. The MOD invested in a number of projects like refuelling tankers; barracks refurbishments; selling all the MOD housing and leasing them back; satellites; and loads of other stuff costing billions. Instead of funding this through the public purse they used PFI and, errrr, borrowed money from the banks. Most of the schemes were so badly thought through they ended up costing billions more than if publicly funded.

Posh wrote:With regards to the NHS I think people should be aware of what's about to happen. Now you may agree with it, be against it or don't believe it's going to happen but this is my view and we'll see what actually takes place.

Tories: We're scrapping PCTs (Primary Care Trusts) so we can put decisions into the hands of your local GP, the person who knows you best and means decisions at a truly local level.

My view: In Hiillindon, West London, they're one of the test areas. Three PCTs are being abolished and one super-commissioning body has been appointed. This takes the process further away from GPs. The new body is not an NHS body an American healthcare firm. A form of privatisation already.

Tories: We're getting rid of unneeded beauracrats and expensive managers.

My view: PCT managers are (and will in future) being made redundant with big pay-offs, often as much or more than a year's salary. They are then being reappointed to a GP commissioning body the next day. Hundreds of millions will be spent on redundancies only to see these people running exactly the same services.

Tories: There will be no change to the running of the rest of the NHS bar improvements we've already announced.

My view: An organisation called Monitor, which oversees the commissioning of services has been told specifically that commissioning bodies must tender those services to multiple provides and take the best deal. Let's say Grandma needs a hip replacement - a fairly straight forward procedure. GP tells his American owned commissioning body to buy the procedure. American firm gives two choices the RLI and a private hospital in Preston owned by exactly the same American firm.

They go with the American firm because they massively undercut the NHS by doing this work for a loss. This continues until your local hospital has to stop offering the same procedure. Eventually local publically owned hospitals only undertake accident and emergency and high risk procedure forcing the hospital to close. The American hospital then increases its prices massively so it can recoup its losses and build massive profits.

Within 10 years the NHS will be a purchasing body at the GP stage. Everything else will be private. Private firms, like the big american one, will then offer insurance so that you can jump lengthening queues. Eventually getting an operation on the NHS will be a nightmare and the only option will be to go private. Finally the complete privatisation of the NHS. The poor getting no care and medical expenses dominating our lives.

This is happening right now.

a depressing but well put and scarily informative post mike
thanks for that this is what people should be fully aware of the message needs to get out there
like many of us i dread the day i need help from the nhs big time

Posh wrote:

P/T Indie wrote:Can the banks be blamed for the overspend at the Ministry of Defence for example?

Incredible as it may sound they can. The MOD invested in a number of projects like refuelling tankers; barracks refurbishments; selling all the MOD housing and leasing them back; satellites; and loads of other stuff costing billions. Instead of funding this through the public purse they used PFI and, errrr, borrowed money from the banks. Most of the schemes were so badly thought through they ended up costing billions more than if publicly funded.

So does that mean we never had the money in the first place for these projects so the government took out a massive mortgage?

P/T Indie wrote:

Posh wrote:

P/T Indie wrote:Can the banks be blamed for the overspend at the Ministry of Defence for example?

Incredible as it may sound they can. The MOD invested in a number of projects like refuelling tankers; barracks refurbishments; selling all the MOD housing and leasing them back; satellites; and loads of other stuff costing billions. Instead of funding this through the public purse they used PFI and, errrr, borrowed money from the banks. Most of the schemes were so badly thought through they ended up costing billions more than if publicly funded.

So does that mean we never had the money in the first place for these projects so the government took out a massive mortgage?

In some cases we needed to replace services. Paying say £5 billion on completion is a lot of wedge and then there is the running costs. Instead private company, US company Lockheed, for the refuelling tankers backed by a range of banks do a deal to run the service for 25 years for £10 billion or only say £400 million a year instead of a big payment of £5 billion in one go. OK so it costs more in the long run but the cash-flow is better. Then when as the deal is being done the company and banks say ooh financing costs have gone up, ooh material costs have gone up, ooh delays have impacted costs and we end signing up for £15 billion because we're so far down the line, we need the planes and frankly I'm just a civil servant, it's not my money and I can't be arsed. Result we're about £8 billion out of pocket.

Anyone watch Questiontime last night?
Clark Carlisle (Burnley footballer) was excellent, as was Simon Hughes and that Tory minister.
George Galloway was George Galloway.
Alastair Campbell was in his sights for the duration, and at times looked sad and lonely.
Should be on BBC iPlayer.

Thank goodness Ed Balls has now got the job he craved.
Why was it handed to a financial novice in the first place?
Two Ed's are better than one, but hopefully it'll only be opposition.

Peter wrote:Anyone watch Questiontime last night?
Clark Carlisle (Burnley footballer) was excellent, as was Simon Hughes and that Tory minister.
George Galloway was George Galloway.
Alastair Campbell was in his sights for the duration, and at times looked sad and lonely.Should be on BBC iPlayer.

Thank goodness Ed Balls has now got the job he craved.
Why was it handed to a financial novice in the first place?
Two Ed's are better than one, but hopefully it'll only be opposition.

Alastair Campbell must be the world's best at 'overtalking' everybody. He just wouldn't allow anybody else to have their say without interupting.

I've no problem with him having different views than others, but at least let them be allowed to express those opinions.

Posh wrote:With regards to the NHS I think people should be aware of what's about to happen. Now you may agree with it, be against it or don't believe it's going to happen but this is my view and we'll see what actually takes place.

Tories: We're scrapping PCTs (Primary Care Trusts) so we can put decisions into the hands of your local GP, the person who knows you best and means decisions at a truly local level.

My view: In Hiillindon, West London, they're one of the test areas. Three PCTs are being abolished and one super-commissioning body has been appointed. This takes the process further away from GPs. The new body is not an NHS body an American healthcare firm. A form of privatisation already.

Tories: We're getting rid of unneeded beauracrats and expensive managers.

My view: PCT managers are (and will in future) being made redundant with big pay-offs, often as much or more than a year's salary. They are then being reappointed to a GP commissioning body the next day. Hundreds of millions will be spent on redundancies only to see these people running exactly the same services.

Tories: There will be no change to the running of the rest of the NHS bar improvements we've already announced.

My view: An organisation called Monitor, which oversees the commissioning of services has been told specifically that commissioning bodies must tender those services to multiple provides and take the best deal. Let's say Grandma needs a hip replacement - a fairly straight forward procedure. GP tells his American owned commissioning body to buy the procedure. American firm gives two choices the RLI and a private hospital in Preston owned by exactly the same American firm.

They go with the American firm because they massively undercut the NHS by doing this work for a loss. This continues until your local hospital has to stop offering the same procedure. Eventually local publically owned hospitals only undertake accident and emergency and high risk procedure forcing the hospital to close. The American hospital then increases its prices massively so it can recoup its losses and build massive profits.

Within 10 years the NHS will be a purchasing body at the GP stage. Everything else will be private. Private firms, like the big american one, will then offer insurance so that you can jump lengthening queues. Eventually getting an operation on the NHS will be a nightmare and the only option will be to go private. Finally the complete privatisation of the NHS. The poor getting no care and medical expenses dominating our lives.

This is happening right now.

Yes to pretty much all of that, except you could replace the word "Tories" with "Whoever is in government." This stuff happens no matter who's in charge - the civil servants who come up with the policies in Whitehall (ex-bankers, ex-industry, ex-big-pharma) don't change when the government changes, so they always end up happening.

Christies Child wrote:I've no problem with him having different views than others, but at least let them be allowed to express those opinions.

If George Galloway had his way Alastair Campbell would be stood next to Tony Bliar at the firing squad.
It'd be interesting to know what their last words would be.
Perhaps they'd both want the last word

The Marksman wrote:Yes to pretty much all of that, except you could replace the word "Tories" with "Whoever is in government." This stuff happens no matter who's in charge - the civil servants who come up with the policies in Whitehall (ex-bankers, ex-industry, ex-big-pharma) don't change when the government changes, so they always end up happening.

Is this another case of 'never letting the full facts get in the way of a good story'?
I almost copied Posh's posting, but thought that a 4th copy might be 'spinning' it a bit too much

Peter wrote:Anyone watch Questiontime last night?
Clark Carlisle (Burnley footballer) was excellent, as was [u]Simon Hughes[/u] and that Tory minister.
George Galloway was George Galloway.
Alastair Campbell was in his sights for the duration, and at times looked sad and lonely.
Should be on BBC iPlayer.

Thank goodness Ed Balls has now got the job he craved.
Why was it handed to a financial novice in the first place?
Two Ed's are better than one, but hopefully it'll only be opposition.

Everytime I see a Lib Dem on TV they always look embarrassed, ashamed and defensive about what they're doing, like they know it's wrong. They had all these promises before the election only to repay their voters by whoring themselves out as a crutch to prop up a Tory government who couldn't win by themselves (despite how bad a state the country was supposedly in). Seduced by the prospect of a whif of power, pathetic.

Christies Child wrote:

Peter wrote:Anyone watch Questiontime last night?
Clark Carlisle (Burnley footballer) was excellent, as was Simon Hughes and that Tory minister.
George Galloway was George Galloway.
Alastair Campbell was in his sights for the duration, and at times looked sad and lonely.Should be on BBC iPlayer.

Thank goodness Ed Balls has now got the job he craved.
Why was it handed to a financial novice in the first place?
Two Ed's are better than one, but hopefully it'll only be opposition.

Alastair Campbell must be the world's best at 'overtalking' everybody. He just wouldn't allow anybody else to have their say without interupting.

I've no problem with him having different views than others, but at least let them be allowed to express those opinions.

Anyone who winds up that fat Tory mess Adam Boulton is alright by me

durhamshrimp wrote:Everytime I see a Lib Dem on TV they always look embarrassed, ashamed and defensive about what they're doing, like they know it's wrong. They had all these promises before the election only to repay their voters by whoring themselves out as a crutch to prop up a Tory government who couldn't win by themselves (despite how bad a state the country was supposedly in). Seduced by the prospect of a whif of power, pathetic.

There wasn't an elected Labour bod on show was there?
At least turn up

Posh wrote:Our debt ratios (debt to GDP) under Brown and now are still lower than any G7 economy bar Germany.

But doesn't 'published' UK debt ignore PFI's anyway? I'm sure if the full scope of PFI debt was added in, the total UK debt would be considerably more.

That said, I agree broadly with your analysis of the back-door privatisation of the NHS. The saving grace for the NHS is that Lib Dems have now made themselves so totally deplorable that they will be almost finished as a political party come the next election and I think the Tories will then lose. That might give Labour enough time to stop that destruction. Sadly, I don't think the war-mongerer was interested in the NHS. He was elected initially on such a huge landslide that he had a mandate to really do so much good. Instead he wasted it.

Some PFI is 'on balance sheet' and some 'off', so who knows.

The problem with your analysis is that the Tories will have fully implemented their NHS reforms well before the next election. They're so desperate to get these reforms in health and education in place they're even using emergency law measures meant for terrorism and war to rush through their legislation. Going by the Burnley audience on Question Time, ordinary working people are a lot brighter than the Lib Dems. My hope is that the people will give their answer at the local elections in May, and coalition disintegrates quickly after.

Posh wrote:My view: PCT managers are (and will in future) being made redundant with big pay-offs, often as much or more than a year's salary. They are then being reappointed to a GP commissioning body the next day. Hundreds of millions will be spent on redundancies only to see these people running exactly the same services.

Who created these PCTs?
Who agreed their contracts, salary structure, and pay-off terms?
How many are there? Is it necessary to have so many?
Have they been cost effective?