Ze Germanz vs Same Old England ?

[George Dawes]

or get a Manager who picks a team to play as a team with a system


or Cappelo just like Sven and Mclaren with a policy of oh errrr lets see now? i know ill just play all my best players altogether at once and hope one day or one tournament they might all click together(maybe there's to much pressure with the job)


but it's been proven in 2/3 previous tournaments now Gerrard & Lampard cant play together in a 4 4 2 when will people learn!


so if we've got nobody in this country with a left foot to play on the left wing can we not play wing-backs with plenty of good left-backs who can go forward Cole/Bridge/Baines/Richardson even Barry and pack the midfield then you might be able to play Gerrard & Lampard together in a system like that


in Italia 90 when we got to the semi-finals we played with three center-backs T Butcher, D Walker, M Wright with a wing-back system back then 20yrs ago

[ockers]

in Italia 90 when we got to the semi-finals we played with three center-backs T Butcher, D Walker, M Wright with a wing-back system back then 20yrs ago[/quote]

20 years ago we had the last great english footballer...............

Paul Gascoigne

we haven't had a great player since imho

argentina brazil germany holland italy spain churn them out from time to time sadly we dont.........

[shrimpnsave]

Paul Gascoigne

any news on gazza and how hes doing with the demon drink?????

[heysham_mfc]

England were just awful today not one of the player played well except David James and what the hell were they thinking bringing Heskey on!

[Suzi Quatro]

Well I told everybody that it would all end in tears. We have to be honest with ourselves that our Country lacks the stamina and capabilities to compete in international Football. Our Team have disgraced themselves and the reputation of Football for a generation to come. The England Team are a bunch of spoilt overpaid individuals who lack the skills to communcate and effectively work as a team. The reason for their poor performance is without a doubt the late nights including I am led to believe, a booze orgie the night before the match. I hope upon their return to their luxury life in the U.k that the awaiting crowds at the airport give them some abusive comments as they return in style. We need to change the culture of professional football and one good step would be to pay our team a basic workers wage as oppose to the mass pay outs they get regardless of the result. Sir Alf Ramsey will be spinning in his grave this evening. The 1966 team played for the love of the game as oppose to the money and the lifestyle.

[mrpotatohead]

Our best hope was Terry Venables, a foreign manager is no good for us, we now have to be realistic, our superstars are not really superstars, so an england team of hardworking average players, with a sprinkling of dubious englanders, a la jack charlton style, and playing people doing what they do best

[scar]

Got to agree with many of the sentiments in the many posts.

We've put footballers on a par with stars of the screen and music. They are paid similar and live a similar lifestyle - party hard, very materialistic, it's all about them. Unfortunately this won't change as the people paying them the massive amounts of cash are wanting silverware in a trophy cabinet, nothing more.

The men behind your Chelski's & Man Cities of this world pay absolutely massive amounts to players who are guided and driven by their agents, who lets face it, are only driven by their greed for a higher percentage of their cut.

I doubt it will ever change, shame really.

[mrpotatohead]

just seen this elswhere

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tn ... 2121107885

[George Dawes]

people saying players and there movie star lifestyles being spoilt and over-paid etc etc etc is a poor excuse


it's just the same in Brazil with the stardom of there players and they dont have problems wining world cups

[ezz]

How long do you reckon it'l be before we now have some form of goal line technology?
The England team just aren't good enough, to win at niternational level you need a midfield bursting with energy and pace, lampard and gerrard dont offer that and Barry isn't a world class defensive midfielder really.
Also how do we expect to win without playing with a left side? Playing long balls when we have 2 small strikers?
It looks like we didn't come with any strategy but to play what on paper looks like a good starting 11.......

[P/T Indie]

The sad thing is England will never produce another player like Gazza or like a Ozil, Messi etc the whole coaching system in this country is wrong and when we do get a kid with good techinical ability we coach it out of them.

The whole of the FA should be kicked out and they should let Trevor Brooking get on with his technical changes instead of blocking all the time.

[Opinionated]

Despite awful performances by the players it's Capello's tactics which really cost us. Using a wide selection of wingers in qualification to none against the first decent side we have played shows a complete lack of faith by the manager in our ability. The tactics against Slovenia were shocking yet Capello didn't change them. I would like to see more adventureous football. Harry Redknapp would be the obvious choice but I think Capello will stay. However we had too many players who didn't turn up for this tournament:

Rob Green - Should never have been number 1 as he makes too many mistakes at club level.

Matthew Upson - Hasn't had a great season with West Ham and showed no understanding with Terry.

Ashley Cole - Wasn't used as an attacking option.

Steven Gerrard - Showed a lack of discipline which ruined the shape of the team.

Frank Lampard - Never has the same influence for England that he does for Chelsea.

Gareth Barry - Key player who clearly needed more time to regain match sharpness.

Wayne Rooney - Looked slow and sluggish in the same way Wayne Curtis does every pre season after an unhealthy summer. Why?

Emile Heskey - Shouldn't have boarded the plane.

Crouch, SWP, Lennon should have been used more.

Regardless of players and the manager we are constantly restricted by a lack of belief.

[shrimper]

I agree about the tactics - I said before the thing started that we should play (certainly once we got out of the group stage) Rooney on his own with Gerrard in behind and then we could afford Lennon (or Milner) to operate as an out and out winger and still have plenty in midfield.

And this bloke agrees...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/worldcup2010/3032214/Fabios-had-it-wrong-for-ages.html


BUT

Playing the wrong system (4-4-2) doesn't explain Rooney not being able to control the ball, several players not tracking back and others looking like they'd never seen a football. It looked to me like a few players had simply taken their bats home after something had gone wrong off the pitch - which is inexcusable.

We'll find out over the next few weeks and my bet's on something like a big power struggle between Gerrard and Terry.

[scar]

Out of interest, does anyone know why John Terry gave a seperate press conference that was then distanced by Gerrard and Capello?

[P/T Indie]

Talking of tactics or rather lack of them the German's manager's comments were intresting about how he told Klose and Muller to pull Terry out of position of which they did quite easily and to good effect and followed their manager's instructions to the letter.

Do you think our players are sent out with certain instructions, to me it doesn't look like we do as we just wander around like headless chickens half the time.

[Blackpool Shrimp]

Why can't people see we are no where near as good as people think....headless chickens is been kind to a lot of them.there are players in that team of so called superstars who are championship players at best but we seem to think they are world class...in my humble opinion we don't have any world class players.....world class players are the likes of kaka,messi or Ronaldo and in the past cruyff or maradona

[RedRedWine1]

I think the problem is that a succession of managers has tried to force players into a system which negates their talents. Ideally we should be picking players that can do a job in a system that has the best chance of beating the opposition. If that means leaving some o the names out, then so be it. Cesc Fabregas does not normally start for Spain, if he was English I'd put money on us trying to play him, Fwank and Gerrard in the same team. It causes an imbalance in the side as demonstrated by playing Gerrard on the left (who had a poor season for Liverpool but still cake-walked his way into the starting England line-up), which not only doesn't make the most of his talents, it also negates the effectiveness of Ashley Cole who can't go bombing forward with nobody to cover him.

Despite being a passenger during the whole tournament, Wayne Rooney's position in the side was never under threat. He has now played in two World Cups and has yet to score single a goal....hardly the white Pele! Not even the great Emile Heskey, who hardly ever scores, can have that unfortunate record levelled at him. All the while Crouch continues to sit there, thinking.....what was the point in bringing me here? I'm not even going to talk about the defending, an area where supposedly we have great strength in-depth, yet an injury to Rio and we are all over the place.

[shrimper]

Why can't people see we are no where near as good as people think....headless chickens is been kind to a lot of them.there are players in that team of so called superstars who are championship players at best but we seem to think they are world class...in my humble opinion we don't have any world class players.....world class players are the likes of kaka,messi or Ronaldo and in the past cruyff or maradona

Mmm? But no-one else has players quite as good as those you've mentioned, they are the best of the best.

We DO though, based on form with their clubs (give or take a little bit of underperforming periodically, which happens to any player) have players who are better than those who appeared for Germany.

Would Schweinsteiger keep Lampard out of the Chelsea side? Would Klose get picked ahead of Rooney for ManU, Mertesacker ahead of Terry?
They are also streets ahead of the players who turned out for any of the teams in the group stages.

We DO have the players to compete well in any world competition. We showed how well we can do in cruising through the qualifiers.

They just, for whatever reason, didn't do it in South Africa.

I repeat, I think there were selection and tactical issues but they still should have played to the best of their abilities and they didn't.

A fair few of those players who performed so abjectly yesterday (A. Cole, Terry, Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard) would have Europe's top clubs clamouring if they became available any time over the past five years.

They may not now, though.

[Christies Child]

Forget the European Championships and concentrate in the development of a youth policy for the next 4 years by which time we hopefully will have a team capable of mixing it with the best in a major championship.

For me a change in management and tactical approach is paramount with the FA giving up as the controlling body in all matters relating to interntional soccer. Let the Premiership take control (despite its failings!)

Appoint somebody who has the respect of the game and is able to start with a clean sheet of paper. If that means that some or most of the 'Golden Era' are disreguarded by a new management structure, then so be it.

Players like those mentioned above have had their chance. It's time for a radical re-think and time for younger talent to stake their claim. Some of those playing yesterday will have passed their sell by date come the next World Cup. Might as well disguard them now and get the youth used to playing at the next level.

[ezz]

Apart from cluster and get in each others way in the center of the pitch I couldn't work out what our tactics were. Also any other country would have taken yellow cards for their 3rd and 4th goals respectively but we just let them get on with the counter attack. At some points we backed off on the edge of our own box so much i thought it was morecambe

No we need a manager who picks a team with tactics, not a team of names.
Look at the premiership now, if a lot of young decent players dont come through soon we'll be using players from the championship next world cup

[shrimpinho]

Forget the European Championships and concentrate in the development of a youth policy for the next 4 years by which time we hopefully will have a team capable of mixing it with the best in a major championship.

Players like those mentioned above have had their chance. It's time for a radical re-think and time for younger talent to stake their claim. Some of those playing yesterday will have passed their sell by date come the next World Cup. Might as well disguard them now and get the youth used to playing at the next level.

Spot on. I wouldn't say forget about the european championships but like you say, use it as real competitive experience for the younger players coming through. The likes of ryan shawcross or dawson because lets face it our centre backs have had it. These pointless friendlies do no-one any good so its time to change things around. Albeit use the experience from the likes of gerrard, ferdinand, ashely cole and rooney, our best players. We can't just chuck the whole team and replace it with say the u21s and call that our national team but definatly bring in youth who are hungry for success, grooming them for 2014.

[Keith]

to throw in a controversial suggestion...

What is the expectation upon a coach at international level? These players are working with the top coaches week in-week out, they don't need 'coaching' by an international coach. They may need team development and a discussion about tactics but they should understand those tactics immediately. Argentina aren't being successful because Maradona is a 'world class coach', they are being successful because Maradona is allowing them to play with flair but in the positions and style that they play for their clubs AND because he is highly respected within Argentina, mixed with a passion to get them playing as a team. He's kicked every ball, encouraged every player and consoled/congratulated them if they've been substituted. Would Maradona be successful managing Man Utd or Liverpool? No, because his lack of coaching skills would be found out. Would a fluent English speaking 'Maradona' be a success with England? Yes, I think he would because he'd bring the passion we need.

Beckham for England manager?
(leaves goal open for a 'Beckham can't speak fluent English' type quip)

[HALMA 1983]

Get Harry Redknapp in! Spurs won't mind as Cappello might do a switch the other way after his 12M pay off from the F.A

Least we'd see some decent football and some of these rebels put in their place.

[slackAlice]

Get Harry Redknapp in! Spurs won't mind as Cappello might do a switch the other way after his 12M pay off from the F.A

Least we'd see some decent football and some of these rebels put in their place.

He said that he would always be available whenever the 'call' came after he was passed over last time. But even he might have a re-think now ; I mean he was joining in with the chorus of "we have some fantastic players and I can see us winning this one 2 - 1" sort of thing [pre-Germany match] ; and his team Spurs have a special season up & coming.
The only a selection variation I heard him come up with in the group stages was "I'd play Lennon for his pace" .
It said on the news it will cost the FA £10 Mill to off load Capello but what then ? That's probably why he ain't resigning !!
I don't profess to be an England fan or an expert on English players but its pretty obvious that they just were not good enough - all those TV pundits were talking absolute ROT with one or two exceptions about Englands prospects before and during the World Cup.
All the usual reasons / excuses are invalid I believe -over paid , too many foreign players , too tired etc. any thing along similar lines you could say the same about all the other national teams players / leagues.
The brutal truth is Englands best 11 just ain't good enough when it comes to the BIG time. They could of had an extra two players on Sunday and still lose - as one of those poor buggers said on the telly "there just a team of bottlers" a bit harsh I suppose I'd simply say they were way out of their depth and they knew it after about 30 minutes.

[shrimper]

Get Harry Redknapp in! Spurs won't mind as Cappello might do a switch the other way after his 12M pay off from the F.A

Least we'd see some decent football and some of these rebels put in their place.

Leave it. Just leave it!