Admission charges

[HALMA 1983]

Its a shock to them when someone enters the place that wants to find work.

I've worked for 30 years without ever drawing benefit but when I got made redundant 4 months back and went into the Job centre for the very first time I was tripping up over work shy layabouts who didn't deserve to be breathing the same air as folks who've paid so much into the system for their benefit,
The first thing the lady did when she approached me was to give me a poorly printed piece of paper with a website on it telling me how to claim benefits
I said to her that I didn't want handouts (although I’d paid enough stamp within my long working life to retire) and wanted to find work before my notice was up but it was falling on deaf ears in that hellhole
My comment on leaving was that they should have two entrances into that place.....................one for those who are actively seeking work and another for all the dropouts who aren't!!! And left without the paper in disgust.

I went straight home and printed out my c.v and after putting my self out that night by going to various venues around town, had 3 offers of work within a week, I took one of them, be it permanent nights and my long standing service record has been maintained......so has my self dignity.

All I can say is: Jobs are there for anyone who WANTS to work but I can't agree on out of workers getting special treatment as goes entrance fees in Christie Park...............I know my pride wouldn't have allowed it
As goes helping the club in a voluntary capacity I can highly recommend it to anyone.....................I had 2 full seasons of it and that was when I was working 40 hours plus

Chesh and the team do a bloody marvellous job behind the scenes!

[mrpotatohead]

This post is nothing to do with who deserves or does not
deserve benefits, or how they are treated at the dole office, it is about cheap admission at CP for unemployed people, CC has stated he is championing reduced prices for jobless people, i think its a pile of toss to assume a single extra fan would come to watch morecambe if it cost 8 quid instead of 12 if you only have 64 quid a week to live on, active military personell probably deserve free admission but do not get it, from what i can make of CC as he uses SV as his autobiography he does not need the reduction.

[marky]

The Job Centre can't be arsed either. 3 minutes the otherday and that was it. No advice. No help. Nothing at all.

Very easy to criticise when you don't know the full story. 3 minutes is all anyone gets when they just go to sign. Also, the signing staff aren't paid to give advice and certainly aren't trained to do that. If you want advice, be proactive and ask to see an adviser. Don't expect to be just be spoon fed. All Jobcentres are under immense pressure at the moment. How do I know this? I'm training to be an adviser myself and it's amazing how many preconceptions I had about Jobcentres based on my own experiences as a 'customer' have been blown out of the water after just 3 weeks on the other side.

[HALMA 1983]

The Job Centre can't be arsed either. 3 minutes the otherday and that was it. No advice. No help. Nothing at all.

Very easy to criticise when you don't know the full story. 3 minutes is all anyone gets when they just go to sign. Also, the signing staff aren't paid to give advice and certainly aren't trained to do that. If you want advice, be proactive and ask to see an adviser. Don't expect to be just be spoon fed. All Jobcentres are under immense pressure at the moment. How do I know this? I'm training to be an adviser myself and it's amazing how many preconceptions I had about Jobcentres based on my own experiences as a 'customer' have been blown out of the water after just 3 weeks on the other side.

Sorry! politics and all but got to answer this one

We ALL know the 'Full Story' only too bloody well

This countries a shambles bordering on a massive meltdown and all because of state handouts using hard working tax payers money to prop up our second society and make no mistake that's what we have here! especially in Morecambe.
Why have Job centres at all? when all they are in effect is the feeding teat of the nanny state for all the wasters to suckle on
Nobody is under any illusions about the crisis facing staff and the pressure their under dealing with what comes through the door but unless the government say enough is enough and take a much tougher stance and put measures inplace to make sure these people no longer just have a full time holiday at our expense then it's going to be add further strain on those in jobs to keep on providing more and more.

Please understand that i'm not tarring everybody with the same brush, people who have worked and paid into the system and fallen on hard times.......................they have my utmost respect and should be the first to be considered for any help going and be able to claim benefits designed and paid for by their national insurance contributions regardless of any savings or redundancy monies they've been paid out

The powers that be hold too much information about every living person and by just keying in their National insurance number can put alot of this red tape to bed
To think they used to laugh at what David Icke was saying.................turned out to be nearer to the truth than others would have you believe

[Aal]

To get back to the original question, CC I think it's a good idea. It worked really well at my home town club Motherwell in the 80s after the Ravenscraig Steelworks closed down. Attendances held up really well and gave folks who were down on their luck a bit of pride in their football team.

A mate of mine follows Wolves and is shocked that his ticket price has gone up from £28 to £40. He won't be going to so many games this season. I am sure tho that others will fill his seat. These Prem clubs can get away with it...but for how long??

[marky]

This countries a shambles bordering on a massive meltdown and all because of state handouts using hard working tax payers money to prop up our second society and make no mistake that's what we have here! especially in Morecambe.
Why have Job centres at all? when all they are in effect is the feeding teat of the nanny state for all the wasters to suckle on
Nobody is under any illusions about the crisis facing staff and the pressure their under dealing with what comes through the door but unless the government say enough is enough and take a much tougher stance and put measures inplace to make sure these people no longer just have a full time holiday at our expense then it's going to be add further strain on those in jobs to keep on providing more and more.

Measures ARE in place. Anyone under 25 who is still on JSA after 6 months will be forced to see a New Deal Adviser, after which they will have to go on compulsary training courses. If they refuse or don't turn up, they will have sanctions put on their benefit. Also, anyone who thinks out current economic troubles have anything to do with benefit payments is, well, I won't use the words I want to.

Please understand that i'm not tarring everybody with the same brush, people who have worked and paid into the system and fallen on hard times.......................they have my utmost respect and should be the first to be considered for any help going and be able to claim benefits designed and paid for by their national insurance contributions regardless of any savings or redundancy monies they've been paid out

Are you sure about that? Whenever there's a thread on here about JSA, usually after the several times a year CC seems to be made redundant, you're one of the first to whinge about scroungers, etc. In all the interviews I've observed over the last few weeks (and those I've conducted myself this week), I've only come across 2 people who you could tell weren't that bothered about getting a job. They do exist, but the vast majority of Jobcentre 'customers' aren't on JSA for long enough to become the permanent fixture in a JCP as you describe.

The powers that be hold too much information about every living person and by just keying in their National insurance number can put alot of this red tape to bed
To think they used to laugh at what David Icke was saying.................turned out to be nearer to the truth than others would have you believe

What's that got to do with anything, other than being a politicaly-led statement that has nothing to add to a thread about people on JSA...?

[HALMA 1983]

This countries a shambles bordering on a massive meltdown and all because of state handouts using hard working tax payers money to prop up our second society and make no mistake that's what we have here! especially in Morecambe.
Why have Job centres at all? when all they are in effect is the feeding teat of the nanny state for all the wasters to suckle on
Nobody is under any illusions about the crisis facing staff and the pressure their under dealing with what comes through the door but unless the government say enough is enough and take a much tougher stance and put measures inplace to make sure these people no longer just have a full time holiday at our expense then it's going to be add further strain on those in jobs to keep on providing more and more.

Measures ARE in place. Anyone under 25 who is still on JSA after 6 months will be forced to see a New Deal Adviser, after which they will have to go on compulsary training courses. If they refuse or don't turn up, they will have sanctions put on their benefit. Also, anyone who thinks out current economic troubles have anything to do with benefit payments is, well, I won't use the words I want to.

Please understand that i'm not tarring everybody with the same brush, people who have worked and paid into the system and fallen on hard times.......................they have my utmost respect and should be the first to be considered for any help going and be able to claim benefits designed and paid for by their national insurance contributions regardless of any savings or redundancy monies they've been paid out

Are you sure about that? Whenever there's a thread on here about JSA, usually after the several times a year CC seems to be made redundant, you're one of the first to whinge about scroungers, etc. In all the interviews I've observed over the last few weeks (and those I've conducted myself this week), I've only come across 2 people who you could tell weren't that bothered about getting a job. They do exist, but the vast majority of Jobcentre 'customers' aren't on JSA for long enough to become the permanent fixture in a JCP as you describe.

The powers that be hold too much information about every living person and by just keying in their National insurance number can put alot of this red tape to bed
To think they used to laugh at what David Icke was saying.................turned out to be nearer to the truth than others would have you believe

What's that got to do with anything, other than being a politicaly-led statement that has nothing to add to a thread about people on JSA...?

Laughable! but if you choose to live with your eyes closed to reality then best of British.................better still go bury your head in the sand on the seafront

[Christies Child]

I'm sorry but I just can't let Marky make comments about my 'being redundant several times a year' without coming back on that one.

Marky you certainly don't know the facts or the reasonsing for the redundancies for you to make such a slanderous comment. One that I take exception to.

Within the last 2 yares I've been made redundant 3 times and that after a career spanning some 40 years without any problems whatso ever.

I'm not going into too much detail but I can't be blamed if one company decides to close its commercial division based in Blackburn and move it elsewhere because of re-organisation?

Was it my fault that a round journey of over 240 miles every day to my office got too much for my family to take with the constant threat of a serious accident hanging over them, in addition to the 1500 miles average on a weekly basis just on business?

Is it my fault that the banks will not invest in a profitable business to see it through a particularly hard time in the Print Industry and as a result the company accountants forced the MD into reducing his staff by 50%; in my case 'last in...first out'?


I normally don't take offence at what people say or think of me on SVs but on this occassion I have to resond to give you the facts as they are.

I most certainly want to work and more importantly for my self respect and to look after my family need to work. I'll continue to explore every avenue open to me, but sooner or later I WILL BE BACK...that I have no doubt.

[durhamshrimp]

I think it would be a good idea if it made the club money/got more fans in. End of story. The people who are moaning that they have a job blah blah blah are missing the point.

It isn't the club's job to punish or judge people in that position but it is there job to get as much revenue in as possible to help with our development. If a reduction in ticket prices for job seekers was implemented it could only really be judged on whether it was a financial success for the club.

[ockers]

The Job Centre can't be arsed either. 3 minutes the otherday and that was it. No advice. No help. Nothing at all.

Very easy to criticise when you don't know the full story. 3 minutes is all anyone gets when they just go to sign. Also, the signing staff aren't paid to give advice and certainly aren't trained to do that. If you want advice, be proactive and ask to see an adviser. Don't expect to be just be spoon fed. All Jobcentres are under immense pressure at the moment. How do I know this? I'm training to be an adviser myself and it's amazing how many preconceptions I had about Jobcentres based on my own experiences as a 'customer' have been blown out of the water after just 3 weeks on the other side.

you're going to be busy marky a predicted 750000 extra on the list by mid 2010
levels wont fall until 2012 according the latest audit commmission's recession report out this week
From someone who has worked in the benefits environment for the last 22 years you have my sympathy
i too had a bad experience with 10 months on the dole in 1985/86

[marky]

CC, you've totally misinterpretted what I was saying. Every time you've been made redundant, you've created a thread about your experiences. Every time, Oldhamade contributions to those threads have been some sort of rant about scroungers. I wasn't insinuating anything else. I certainly wasn't having some sort of dig, though if some of my colleagues were advising you they *might* mention something along the lines of searching for employment in a less fractious industry...

As you Oldhamade's latest comments, one thing you could never accuse me of is burying my head in the sand. If you want to discuss the causes of the recession I'll be happy to do so, but to lay the blame at the door of 'government hand outs' is at best naive and at worst politcally biased.

[Gnasher]

such a slanderous comment

"slander refers to a malicious, false and defamatory spoken statement or report"

By CC's own admission, Within the last 2 yares I've been made redundant 3 times. Marky's statement is perfectly correct.

[Mark S]

Not really. several times a year would infer at least three times, at least two years in a row. that would be six.

At best the statement was below the belt.

Leave the guy alone. Must be horrible. Keep your head up CC and best of luck getting a new job in your chosen industry.

[Posh]

Well said Mark.

It happened to me in the past and has probably happened to a majority of people over 40 (school teachers excepted) who've lived through three or four recessions.

The school teacher reference isn't a dig but a reference to those jobs - teachers, politicians and some civil servants, including job centre workers - who have a massive influence over the preparation of people for work, creation of jobs and the delivery of employment who've never actually worked in the private sector and fail to understand what its like to work without job security, a final salary pension and to actually take risks as a business owner or manager.

As regards Marky's comments that only a tiny minority aren't trying to look for work. Of course you're right because the only way they can claim JSA is by saying they are 'actively seeking work'. Yet spend 10 minutes in Lancaster (by far a bad location for it) and I'll introduce you to a lot of people between 23 and 28 who've never worked in their lives, have no intention to and are for the most unemployable, yet they still get JSA because they 'conform' to simplistic rules. It is time that we had social responsibility and after six months / a year you worked for your JSA.

As for Incapacity Benefit, the numbers have climbed from 1 million in the 80's when the Tories used it as a way to massage the figures to 3 million now because Labour have done exactly the same. Disability hasn't risen massively, sure there are a few more people too fat to climb the stairs, but all in a large part its a corrupt and fraudulent system that needs smashing.

[thegentlegiant]

i think if you are wanting to reduce ticket prices for JSA holders then you would need to reduce ticket prices for anyone who also claims income support, u have to keep it fair across the board.

Although i personally think the ticket prices are already the best in league!!!

[Gnasher]

i think if you are wanting to reduce ticket prices for JSA holders then you would need to reduce ticket prices for anyone who also claims income support, u have to keep it fair across the board.

Where do you draw the line? Stop at JSA? Extend it to include someone in receipt of housing benefit? What about child benefit? All are government payments to people they think deserve financial help.

[thegentlegiant]

i think if you are wanting to reduce ticket prices for JSA holders then you would need to reduce ticket prices for anyone who also claims income support, u have to keep it fair across the board.

Where do you draw the line? Stop at JSA? Extend it to include someone in receipt of housing benefit? What about child benefit? All are government payments to people they think deserve financial help.

my point exactly Brian!!!

[Gnasher]

We'll end up with individually priced admission charges based on means testing.

[Plain Peter]

It's obviously too difficult to implement then, despite the fact that some other clubs offer similar concessions.
The bottom line is simple, either offer a concession to JSA holders, or they may drift, probably forever.
Who loses out?
The club.
Then what?
Price of tickets go up.
Then who's dipped-out?
We all have.
Personally, I don't really care who gets a concession.
They don't wear a uniform, or smell.
If concessions help fill the ground then that's great.

[Gnasher]

either offer a concession to JSA holders, or they may drift

One of the points we're trying to get across is who else might drift? Why restrict it to someone receiving JSA? Not everyone on JSA has no money and not everyone who has no money is on JSA.

[marky]

As regards Marky's comments that only a tiny minority aren't trying to look for work. Of course you're right because the only way they can claim JSA is by saying they are 'actively seeking work'. Yet spend 10 minutes in Lancaster (by far a bad location for it) and I'll introduce you to a lot of people between 23 and 28 who've never worked in their lives, have no intention to and are for the most unemployable, yet they still get JSA because they 'conform' to simplistic rules. It is time that we had social responsibility and after six months / a year you worked for your JSA.

For someone so politically aware, I'm surprised you don't know that what you suggest is about to become one of the rules of JSA.

As for Incapacity Benefit, the numbers have climbed from 1 million in the 80's when the Tories used it as a way to massage the figures to 3 million now because Labour have done exactly the same. Disability hasn't risen massively, sure there are a few more people too fat to climb the stairs, but all in a large part its a corrupt and fraudulent system that needs smashing.

Again, surely you're aware that Incapacity Benefit has been scrapped and replaced with Employment Support Allowance, which brings with it a totally different focus. And disability itself? It depends on what you call disability, really. Instances of physical disability certainly haven't risen greatly, but more people (including myself) are being accurately diagnosed with mental disabilities. I myself was receiving Incapacity Benefit for 13 months till I finally got back into employment a few weeks ago.

Actually, maybe I should mention that. Over the years, I've claimed JSA 4 times. As I've just mentioned, I was in receipt of IB until very recently. I'm quite aware of how soul destroying unemployment can be. Whilst I may have slightly exaggerated the number of times CC's been out of work, I would still say that, regardless of age, it's never to late to do something different in a more stable industry.

As for those who do claim JSA and their motivations for doing so... For the entirity of my IB, I had to make regular visits to the Newcastle West Jobcentre Plus. This particular Jobcentre also serves one of the poorest wards in the country (a much poorer area than any part of Morecambe and Lancaster). Even then, I can honestly say I never once felt overwhelmed by a feeling of being surrounded by scroungers. I'd also say it's much easier to point out people who don't seem to be doing very much other than hanging out with their mates on street corners. Those who are actively seeking work don't tend to engage in that kind of activity too often.

[Christies Child]

Looks like I've unearthed a real bag of worms.....unintentionally.

Thanks to all those who've given me and others in a similar position the best of luck going forward. One thing for sure 'there's no way I'm going to give in without a fight!'

[Plain Peter]

Not everyone on JSA has no money and not everyone who has no money is on JSA.

And you can use similar arguments about all concessions.
Never seen OAPs turn up in their Chelsea tractors, or BMWs?
Or students who seem to have the money to get blatted most nights of the week?
Or juveniles wearing all the latest gear.

I'm subsidising the concessions for other peoples children.
You'll probably say I'm not.
You might be right, but you might be wrong.
Does it bother me?
Not really, so long as they are watching the game, and not spoiling the enjoyment of others.

Using your argument all concessions should be done away with.
You might as well close the club altogether then!

[Gnasher]

You'll probably say I'm not.

Wrong.

Using your argument all concessions should be done away with.

Far from it, I'm simply questioning why one particular government benefit should attract a discount while others don't. If you use my argument, you would vastly increase the number of people eligible for discounts therefore vastly increase attendance.

Example of someone who'd miss out ot the JSA scheme. A 17 year old working 20 hours per week on minimum wage living with their single mum who's on various benefits and they hand over £30 per week board to help towards costs. Just the sort of person we should be attracting to CP but they're not on JSA so they don't qualify for the suggested reduced rates.

It's not such a clear cut solution as you think.

One thing's for sure, someone surviving on JSA wouldn't be going to Burton tomorrow.

[Plain Peter]

I'm OK because I got a season ticket before being made redundant, but I wonder what others think about giving those on Job Seekers Allowance of £64 per week a special admission price to games of say £8 on proof of JSA.

We can carry on until the cows come home.
The thread started about concessions for those on JSA.