Bolton Postponement and Morecambe’s Covid Policy

[thedoc]

https://shrimplythebestfootball.com/202 ... -game-off/

[redrobo]

Wise words indeed from the doc.

Unfortunately some idiots still think that the current virus is nothing more than a cold.

Maybe they should spend some time in a Covid ward to see those suffering from the virus and in some cases the distress the loss of a loved one can bring.

I've no sympathy with these idiots....

[Born again Bill]

So 1 in every 4 professional players are not vaccinated which in its self is shocking yet supporters are expected to abide by covid rules and in some cases provide Covid passports to get in to grounds !!!.
So much for being roll models , do these idiots feel they are invincible ?

[Bare bum]

I don't think the repeated accusation of idiocy is at all helpful in this debate. There are individuals and communities with long term-mistrust of government and even of health authorities. There are instances of major cock-ups by the national health service - for example; thalidomide, infected blood transfusions for haemophiliacs. Some people will strongly believe they have valid reasons for vaccine hesitancy. A lot of this is about trust.

[BerlinWaller]

Wise words indeed from the doc.

Unfortunately some idiots still think that the current virus is nothing more than a cold.

Maybe they should spend some time in a Covid ward to see those suffering from the virus and in some cases the distress the loss of a loved one can bring.

I've no sympathy with these idiots....

Have you made any lifestyle changes to combat the risk of the virus or pinning your hopes on cloth masks and a vaccine? I am not sure of the mortality rate of a healthy 20-30 year old athlete who undergoes a medical every year but I reckon it is well below 1%. I would be more worried about the heart complaints than catching a cold. Please remember, the jabs do not stop you catching or passing on the illness.

[Little Shrimp]

Wise words indeed from the doc.

Unfortunately some idiots still think that the current virus is nothing more than a cold.

Maybe they should spend some time in a Covid ward to see those suffering from the virus and in some cases the distress the loss of a loved one can bring.

I've no sympathy with these idiots....

Have you made any lifestyle changes to combat the risk of the virus or pinning your hopes on cloth masks and a vaccine? I am not sure of the mortality rate of a healthy 20-30 year old athlete who undergoes a medical every year but I reckon it is well below 1%. I would be more worried about the heart complaints than catching a cold. Please remember, the jabs do not stop you catching or passing on the illness.

Please also remember that the vaccine reduces the effects of the virus if you catch it, and reduces the level of transmission.

Having Cole Stockton in our starting line-up doesn't guarantee three points, but it certainly decreases our chances of a bad result.

Also, please don't spread misinformation about heart problems. It's not to do with the vaccine. It's a problem that has been identified for years (https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 83051.html).

Another thing worth noting is a key reason for younger and less vulnerable people getting the vaccine is to help protect more vulnerable people. By having the vaccine, you reduce transmissibility if you do end up getting Covid, and you're less likely to pass it on to a vulnerable person who is more likely to suffer from it than yourself. These young athletes have older family members etc who I'm sure they'd all like to protect.

[thedoc]

Bare Bum: Some people will strongly believe they have valid reasons for vaccine hesitancy.

This is true. But some other people strongly believe that the earth is flat; the moon is made from cheese and that Boris Johnson is the best Prime Minister we have ever had in this country. People who have a genuine fear of being vaccinated - potential blood clots; anaphylactic shock - or whatever need to be treated with kid gloves. Rationality and persuasion is the key. We aren't living in the the Stalinist USSR, after all. What's that? Sorry Boris - I stand corrected. But the majority of Covid deniers and vaccine cynics try to justify what are objectively stupid beliefs in conspiracies and things like microchips which makes them idiots by definition. But...they are dangerous idiots. In my view, people should be free to do or believe anything they like - however absurd - providing it doesn't impinge on others. But these peoples' denial of the way the virus operates - or even that it exists at all - affects the rest of us. People have a right not to be inoculated. But they don't have a right to infect other people because of their own mistaken or actually mindless beliefs. I know it's easy to say but difficult to enforce but I would like to see people who choose not to have the vaccination without a rational medical reason obliged to isolate for as long as they remain of that mind or until the pandemic is over.

[asda shrimp]

I know it's easy to say but difficult to enforce but I would like to see people who choose not to have the vaccination without a rational medical reason obliged to isolate for as long as they remain of that mind or until the pandemic is over. Most stupid comment yet.

[BerlinWaller]

Surely the sudden increase in young healthy males having heart problems is worth some investigation and the links it has to a trial vaccine?

The jab doesn't stop transmission, it may reduce it marginally but it doesn't do as was stated. It reduces the severity of illness to the small minority of people actually at risk. The average age of people dying is over 83. If i was at risk, i would follow medical advice, get myself healthy and not be calling people idiots for a choice they are perfectly entitled to make. The hype will be over soon as numbers in london are already decreasing and people needing ventilators is as low as it has been since it began.

[thedoc]

know it's easy to say but difficult to enforce but I would like to see people who choose not to have the vaccination without a rational medical reason obliged to isolate for as long as they remain of that mind or until the pandemic is over. Most stupid comment yet.

Well that's clear. Thanks for explaining. Are you able to?

[Keith]

Surely the sudden increase in young healthy males having heart problems is worth some investigation and the links it has to a trial vaccine?

The jab doesn't stop transmission, it may reduce it marginally but it doesn't do as was stated. It reduces the severity of illness to the small minority of people actually at risk. The average age of people dying is over 83. If i was at risk, i would follow medical advice, get myself healthy and not be calling people idiots for a choice they are perfectly entitled to make. The hype will be over soon as numbers in london are already decreasing and people needing ventilators is as low as it has been since it began.

How much bollocks can you fit in to one paragraph?

"and people needing ventilators is as low as it has been since it began."

Come on then, where did you get that gem from? Fact (I know, COVID deniers don't bother with facts, but for anyone else...) 849 COVID-19 patients on mechanical ventilators in the UK on 21st December. There were 62 on 8th August 2020. But, the fact that there are so few people on ventilators now compared to this time last year, should support the view that the vaccine programme is working? On 21st December 2020, there were 1,512 on mechanical ventilators.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

"If i was at risk, i would follow medical advice"

You are at risk. The medical advice is to get vaccinated. Are you vaccinated or are you ignoring medical advice? If you aren't vaccinated, make an appointment with your GP and ask what their advice is.

"It reduces the severity of illness to the small minority of people actually at risk".

That's just nonsense. Unless you have some peer review study to back the comment up? If so, please, do share it. It reduces the severity in the vast majority of people.

"The average age of people dying is over 83"

Yeah, that's just made up, off the top of your head isn't it?

According to the Office of National Statistics, "life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2018 to 2020 was 79.0 years for males and 82.9 years for females"

If your [made up] 'average age' was actually correct, then COVID-19 has increased life expectancy! You don't genuinely believe that do you?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... 2018to2020

"a trial vaccine?"

Tin foil-hat nonsense from an anti-science numpty. It isn't "a trial". It is approved medication in the same way as any other medication.

"Surely the sudden increase in young healthy males having heart problems is worth some investigation?"

Evidence?

19th December 2021: 81,959 new positive COVID-19 results in the UK.
19th December 2020: 27.052 new positive COVID-19 results in the UK.

19th December 2021: 45 deaths within 28 days of a COVID-19 positive test.
19th December 2020: 534 deaths within 28 days of a COVID-19 positive test.

Do you have an alternative explanation as to why there are almost three times as many people getting COVID-19 now than this time last year, yet there were almost 12 times as many deaths a year ago, if not due to vaccines?

If people don't want to have the vaccine, that's their choice, but spreading nonsense to try and convince other people to follow their delusions, is incredibly dangerous.

(COVID-19 stats from John Hopkins University)

[Little Shrimp]

Surely the sudden increase in young healthy males having heart problems is worth some investigation and the links it has to a trial vaccine?

The jab doesn't stop transmission, it may reduce it marginally but it doesn't do as was stated. It reduces the severity of illness to the small minority of people actually at risk. The average age of people dying is over 83. If i was at risk, i would follow medical advice, get myself healthy and not be calling people idiots for a choice they are perfectly entitled to make. The hype will be over soon as numbers in london are already decreasing and people needing ventilators is as low as it has been since it began.

There isn't a sudden increase in footballers having heart problems. There's a small cluster of higher profile incidents (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... dence.html). Footballers having heart problems has been a heightened issue for a number of years now.

There are also plenty of examples of footballers being struck down to quite a large extent by Covid. Joshua Kimmich is likely to miss two months with it. Remember Kai Havertz not quite being as good as we thought he'd be for Chelsea? Turns out he greatly struggled with long Covid after getting it shortly after arriving in England. Kevin De Bruyne is one who's recently said he's struggling in his recovery from it as well (https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ester-city).

Doesn't do as stated? Nobody ever stated taking a vaccine would eradicate transmission. That's not how vaccines work, and has never been how vaccines work. But most of the population having a vaccine that reduces transmission a bit would massively impact how prevalent a virus/disease is. Just like all the other illnesses such as measles that have been almost eradicated due to vaccines.

You can follow medical advice about but still get Covid. In the same way that you can be the safest driver in the world, but some idiot could plough into the back of you because they were driving too fast.

Not getting the vaccine is a choice, but not one akin to choosing what to have for dinner. Whether I choose to have bolognese or curry has no affect on anybody else. However, choosing whether or not to have a vaccine is a choice that has more widespread effects. The choice not to have the vaccine when you can is inherently selfish. We should all be doing our bit to reduce the effects of Covid, avoid lockdowns and protect vulnerable people.

[Crazeenick]

Surely the sudden increase in young healthy males having heart problems is worth some investigation and the links it has to a trial vaccine?.

There already has been such studies, for example see article in the science journal "Nature" in October based on two large studies in Israel.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02740-y

"In one study of more than 5 million people who had received the Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, 136 developed myocarditis. The other study, of more than 2.5 million people who received the shot, identified just 54 cases of myocarditis."

That's 0.00272% and 0.00216% expressed as percentages. Furthermore their myocarditis was mild and short-term - they all got better.

[Wild Bill]

Some interesting discussions here. Got my third jab today. Did exactly race out to get it, but thought on balance I'd better had. Not enjoying the demonisation Of those that haven't been vaccinated though. Sure, on balance they should also but if they don't it's ultimately their choice. As Bare Bum said, mistrust of government and institutions comes into it as well as the huge amounts big pharma is making. Again, not a good enough reason not to get a vaccine but again, their choice. Alienating unvaccinated folk for me is causing more problems for society.

[Keith]

Some interesting discussions here. Got my third jab today. Did exactly race out to get it, but thought on balance I'd better had. Not enjoying the demonisation Of those that haven't been vaccinated though. Sure, on balance they should also but if they don't it's ultimately their choice. As Bare Bum said, mistrust of government and institutions comes into it as well as the huge amounts big pharma is making. Again, not a good enough reason not to get a vaccine but again, their choice. Alienating unvaccinated folk for me is causing more problems for society.

I agree. In fact, I agreed with BerlinWaller's first post in this thread (although it hinted that he doesn't agree with mask wearing either?) I oppose the stupid policy of sacking care workers who aren't vaccinated, they still have a right to make choices and the risks are lowered if the patients are fully vaccinated. We could/should, simply increase the testing of unvaccinated care staff so they test prior to every shift. I'd suggest working short-staffed is placing patients at increased risk, far more than unvaccinated staff working a shift after being tested.

I can understand some people experiencing vaccine hesitancy and that some of this stems from historical abuses and mistrust of governments.

What I do struggle with, is anti-science supporters spreading disinformation in order to convince other people that they also shouldn't vaccinate.

Follow the evidence. Myocarditis is very, very, very slightly raised compared to naturally occurring incidents. Pandemic planning has been around for decades, 'the next pandemic' (this one) was always a case of 'when' not 'if'. We/society/governments took their eye off the ball. They ignored the plans from 15+ years ago, because, well, that would involve 'planning' & 'preparing'.

And as for masks, the Health & Safety Executive reviewed the importance of mask wearing during a pandemic and that at risk care staff should wear FFP3 masks back in 2008.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr619.pdf

All the pieces were there. We could & should have been educating the population and preparing stockpiles more than a decade ago.

We did. Then we stopped.

[Scouseport_Shrimp]

"I don't need a Covid vaccine, God is protecting me from catching the virus!"......so sez a preacher in the UK's worst affected area of Four Acres in London.

[asda shrimp]

Wise words indeed from the doc.

Unfortunately some idiots still think that the current virus is nothing more than a cold.

Maybe they should spend some time in a Covid ward to see those suffering from the virus and in some cases the distress the loss of a loved one can bring.

I've no sympathy with these idiots....

confirmed it's a cold

[Born again Bill]

Wise words indeed from the doc.

Unfortunately some idiots still think that the current virus is nothing more than a cold.

Maybe they should spend some time in a Covid ward to see those suffering from the virus and in some cases the distress the loss of a loved one can bring.

I've no sympathy with these idiots....

confirmed it's a cold

Yes this latest strain has been downgraded but the delta strain is still alive and well and preying on the weak and blinkered

[thedoc]

ASDAShrimp wrote:

confirmed it's a cold

It’s the season to be positive and tolerant of all mankind. ASDAShrimp has written elsewhere on this site: If they have omnicron then the games off for a cold ?!!!. wtf.
I could be very unkind and ask wtf is Omnicron?
I find it difficult sometimes to understand why – when all the evidence available suggests that coal is usually black – someone somewhere will insist that it’s green. Maybe they are colour blind. ASDAShrimp seems to be Covid blind. Colds don’t kill people. Covid does. Get real mate. I wish both ASDAShrimp and everyone else a very happy Xmas and a virus-free New Year.

[asda shrimp]

ASDAShrimp wrote:

confirmed it's a cold

It’s the season to be positive and tolerant of all mankind. ASDAShrimp has written elsewhere on this site: If they have omnicron then the games off for a cold ?!!!. wtf.
I could be very unkind and ask wtf is Omnicron?
I find it difficult sometimes to understand why – when all the evidence available suggests that coal is usually black – someone somewhere will insist that it’s green. Maybe they are colour blind. ASDAShrimp seems to be Covid blind. Colds don’t kill people. Covid does. Get real mate. I wish both ASDAShrimp and everyone else a very happy Xmas and a virus-free New Year.

All the evidence suggests that OMICRON has cold like symptoms, Not saying it's nothing to be worried about but most people that get it it's mild, it's what i should have said sorry, I do take covid seriously and have had two jabs. everyone is going to get this so we have to live with it,

[Keith]

All the evidence suggests that OMICRON has cold like symptoms, Not saying it's nothing to be worried about but most people that get it it's mild...

The key word being "most". The problem is, not everyone.

The number of people being admitted to hospital with this strain is far less than previous strains.

However, it is much, much more transmissible.

If [for example] only a quarter of the people who are admitted to hospital with previous variants are admitted with Omicron, but five times as many people get infected, then the NHS collapses.

...everyone is going to get this so we have to live with it,

I broadly agree. The challenge is for it to get around the community slowly, so we don't all get it at the same time. My prediction is that by the spring, we will be able to relax much more, but if we overload the NHS and at the same time, we have the flu season to contend with, we're stuffed as a country.

Or. we can slow down the spread as much as possible for the next few months?