Long throws

Long throws

Postby BerlinWaller » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:23 am

One of Derek's tactics has been the long throw in and during Tuesday's comm's and posts on here, it has been criticised.

An interesting stat is that we have had 23 shots at goal from a thrown in attack. Only Carlisle, Cheltenham and Harrogate have had more.

https://twitter.com/d3d4football/status ... 48035?s=19
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Re: Long throws

Postby marky No.1 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:52 am

So many times our throws go straight to the opposition, just like our long hoofs to a centre forward did years ago
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Re: Long throws

Postby BerlinWaller » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:58 am

marky No.1 wrote:So many times our throws go straight to the opposition, just like our long hoofs to a centre forward did years ago


But if it leads to a shot on goal from the 2nd or 3rd ball then surely it is productive? Putting the ball in to the box to be defended and creating something from that regardless of who wins the first ball is beneficial. How many of Tozer's throws land straight on an attackers head? I bet their chances come from the panic it causes rather than a direct attempt at goal.
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Re: Long throws

Postby marky No.1 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:02 am

BerlinWaller wrote:
marky No.1 wrote:So many times our throws go straight to the opposition, just like our long hoofs to a centre forward did years ago


But if it leads to a shot on goal from the 2nd or 3rd ball then surely it is productive? Putting the ball in to the box to be defended and creating something from that regardless of who wins the first ball is beneficial. How many of Tozer's throws land straight on an attackers head? I bet their chances come from the panic it causes rather than a direct attempt at goal.


I am definitely watching with curiosity on Saturday, good point about causing panic, Tozers throws have directly resulted in a handful of goals, but not credited with the assists
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Re: Long throws

Postby Little Shrimp » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:02 am

Interesting stats!

I'm a little surprised at how frequently they do end in a shot for us. Obviously, it's a way behind the 'big two' of Cheltenham (Tozer) and Carlisle (I think they have a lot of different players who are good at long throws, and they always have a stupid amount of shots per game). I think Harrogate will continue to rise even higher than us as that Dan Jones they have at LB has only been playing regularly since February. So that makes us the 'best of the rest'! :lol:

Personally, I don't think our long throws frequently end up in shots, it's more that we hurl in every single one we have around the area. Mellor is ok and so is Cooney, but Hendrie and Gibson aren't great. I think we're only really up there due to frequency, not any real quality coming from the throws.

I think they're more used by us as a way to get the ball into a more dangerous area and to jump on second balls, rather than as dangerous set pieces like Cheltenham etc. I'd personally have us stop them, especially from the left side, but we're generally pretty bad at retaining possession from short throws so I guess it's the lesser of two evils!
Too far away and not seeing enough games really to comment but I'm going to do it anyway
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Re: Long throws

Postby Little Shrimp » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:06 am

marky No.1 wrote:
BerlinWaller wrote:
marky No.1 wrote:So many times our throws go straight to the opposition, just like our long hoofs to a centre forward did years ago


But if it leads to a shot on goal from the 2nd or 3rd ball then surely it is productive? Putting the ball in to the box to be defended and creating something from that regardless of who wins the first ball is beneficial. How many of Tozer's throws land straight on an attackers head? I bet their chances come from the panic it causes rather than a direct attempt at goal.


I am definitely watching with curiosity on Saturday, good point about causing panic, Tozers throws have directly resulted in a handful of goals, but not credited with the assists


You're right, but it's also worth pointing (just because it's a cool stat) that Tozer actually has 7 assists, which is one of the highest totals in the division! Also, the Tozer to Boyle combination for assist and goal has happened 4 times, which is the joint highest combination in League Two.
Too far away and not seeing enough games really to comment but I'm going to do it anyway
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Re: Long throws

Postby marky No.1 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:09 am

I remember Premier League teams purposefully giving a corner away rather than a throw in when playing Stoke.
Blocking off the walkways to the stand helps as well :)
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Re: Long throws

Postby Little Shrimp » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:13 am

marky No.1 wrote:I remember Premier League teams purposefully giving a corner away rather than a throw in when playing Stoke.
Blocking off the walkways to the stand helps as well :)


Didn't Les quickly organise some stewards at HT vs Cheltenham to get barriers up in the gaps between advertising boards? :lol:
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Re: Long throws

Postby BerlinWaller » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:22 am

I agree that it is definitely more launch it in to the box rather than picking out somebody's head which Delap and Challinor used to do. If there is a chance to get the ball in to the box then I am all for it. How many goals have we conceded from being countered after an unsuccessful long throw? It may not look pretty but the stats show it is fairly effective at creating a chance.
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Re: Long throws

Postby black morse » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:21 am

marky No.1 wrote:I remember Premier League teams purposefully giving a corner away rather than a throw in when playing Stoke.
Blocking off the walkways to the stand helps as well :)


Wonder if we could then unblock them when we change ends :lol:
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Re: Long throws

Postby redrobo » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:06 am

DA is 99% right with his tactics but that 1% is with the constant use of the long throw which from my observation hardly ever reaches a player in red. All too often the first man is an opposition player so for me DA has to have a rethink about its use.

Sorry DA but that's how I see it.... :o
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Re: Long throws

Postby black morse » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:51 pm

redrobo wrote:DA is 99% right with his tactics but that 1% is with the constant use of the long throw which from my observation hardly ever reaches a player in red. All too often the first man is an opposition player so for me DA has to have a rethink about its use.

Sorry DA but that's how I see it.... :o


Now you've got DA doubting himself RR :lol:
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Re: Long throws

Postby Bristol Shrimp » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:52 pm

I don't mind the long throws, statistically not many goals come from corners but for some reason whenever a team gets one all the fans get excited as though there's a good chance of something happening, I don't have the stat to hand but I'm sure it's around 1 in 90 corners leads to a goal yet we would still swing a corner in, it's the second/third ball where something could happen from a long throw in I guess much the same as a corner with a scramble. I know we've not had much success with them but I'm sure we'll take it last day to secure automatics skidding off a defenders head and into the net.
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Re: Long throws

Postby BerlinWaller » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:28 pm

But they have led to 23 shots on goal so that is a good thing is it not? It isn't a perfect science but if a shot on goal occurs after the throw then surely it is a good tactic? Getting the ball in to the box at every opportunity is what we want isn't it?
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Re: Long throws

Postby RapidShrimp » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:41 pm

redrobo wrote:DA is 99% right with his tactics but that 1% is with the constant use of the long throw which from my observation hardly ever reaches a player in red. All too often the first man is an opposition player so for me DA has to have a rethink about its use.

Sorry DA but that's how I see it.... :o


I’m sorry to have to say it, but I doubt Derek cares about any of these opinions and doesn’t have the time of day to read through this message board! :lol:

Bristol Shrimp wrote:I don't mind the long throws, statistically not many goals come from corners but for some reason whenever a team gets one all the fans get excited as though there's a good chance of something happening, I don't have the stat to hand but I'm sure it's around 1 in 90 corners leads to a goal yet we would still swing a corner in, it's the second/third ball where something could happen from a long throw in I guess much the same as a corner with a scramble. I know we've not had much success with them but I'm sure we'll take it last day to secure automatics skidding off a defenders head and into the net.


Just take O’Sully’s stunning goal vs. Colchester as a prime example, came straight from a clearance from a corner, but probably won’t get counted in “corners resulting in a goal”.
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Re: Long throws

Postby BerlinWaller » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:17 pm

I am very keen to see how RR would improve on our throw in routines as I am sure Derek would be.

What have you got up your sleeve Neil?
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Re: Long throws

Postby tim-sanchez » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:01 pm

BerlinWaller wrote:But they have led to 23 shots on goal so that is a good thing is it not? It isn't a perfect science but if a shot on goal occurs after the throw then surely it is a good tactic? Getting the ball in to the box at every opportunity is what we want isn't it?


That all depends though, what if we could have had 40 shots on goal if we went with a shorter throw?

I will say your post has given me pause because I didn't expect us to have that many shots, just from watching our throws seem absolutely useless and often end up with the other team countering.

The reality is if we keep winning, I couldn't care less what happens with the throws!
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Re: Long throws

Postby BerlinWaller » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:07 pm

tim-sanchez wrote:
BerlinWaller wrote:But they have led to 23 shots on goal so that is a good thing is it not? It isn't a perfect science but if a shot on goal occurs after the throw then surely it is a good tactic? Getting the ball in to the box at every opportunity is what we want isn't it?


That all depends though, what if we could have had 40 shots on goal if we went with a shorter throw?

I will say your post has given me pause because I didn't expect us to have that many shots, just from watching our throws seem absolutely useless and often end up with the other team countering.

The reality is if we keep winning, I couldn't care less what happens with the throws!


Before i started the thread, i searched for long throws on the forum to see if there was an earlier one but it only came up with posts from yourself about how rubbish and ineffective our long throws are.
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Re: Long throws

Postby tim-sanchez » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:08 pm

BerlinWaller wrote:
tim-sanchez wrote:
BerlinWaller wrote:But they have led to 23 shots on goal so that is a good thing is it not? It isn't a perfect science but if a shot on goal occurs after the throw then surely it is a good tactic? Getting the ball in to the box at every opportunity is what we want isn't it?


That all depends though, what if we could have had 40 shots on goal if we went with a shorter throw?

I will say your post has given me pause because I didn't expect us to have that many shots, just from watching our throws seem absolutely useless and often end up with the other team countering.

The reality is if we keep winning, I couldn't care less what happens with the throws!


Before i started the thread, i searched for long throws on the forum to see if there was an earlier one but it only came up with posts from yourself about how rubbish and ineffective our long throws are.


:lol: Lets hope they prove me wrong on Saturday!
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Re: Long throws

Postby Westgate Wanderer » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:12 pm

Bristol Shrimp wrote:I don't mind the long throws, statistically not many goals come from corners but for some reason whenever a team gets one all the fans get excited as though there's a good chance of something happening, I don't have the stat to hand but I'm sure it's around 1 in 90 corners leads to a goal yet we would still swing a corner in, it's the second/third ball where something could happen from a long throw in I guess much the same as a corner with a scramble. I know we've not had much success with them but I'm sure we'll take it last day to secure automatics skidding off a defenders head and into the net.
Twissy's corners must've been exceptional then! Remember we scored from 3 corners in a row against Chester one season. The fourth corner we didn't score from was met by cheers from the Chester fans!
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