Defence

Defence

Postby redrobo » Tue May 14, 2019 4:43 pm

n a recent post it showed the improved results since January when we had all the new loanees.

However it showed how poor we remain in defence by having the greater number of goals against us since January.

For me this is an area that JB needs to concentrate on by bringing in an experienced defensive midfield player to play just in front of the back line and where possible breaking up attacks and ensuring that an opponent doesn't get an opportunity to run unchallenged as we have seen all too often in games.

Too many goals have been conceded as a result of an opponent being given the space to shoot from outside of the box.

Others may disagree with the above but for me it remains an area of major concern.
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Re: Defence

Postby BerlinWaller » Tue May 14, 2019 5:09 pm

Oh those summer months where we sit and remember how we have never replaced Andy Grimshaw.
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Re: Defence

Postby black morse » Tue May 14, 2019 6:30 pm

BerlinWaller wrote:Oh those summer months where we sit and remember how we have never replaced Andy Grimshaw.


:lol: :lol:
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Re: Defence

Postby tim-sanchez » Tue May 14, 2019 10:19 pm

I'm still not convinced the defence is necessarily the issue, but there's definitely an issue with us conceding too many goals, and also being on the receiving end of far too many shots. I think often our midfield give our defenders far too much to do, and we also seem to sit pretty deep, which invites runs into the box or shots from outside the box.

However, when Jim sets the team up defensively, we seem to play worse if anything! We're definitely better when we attack, even if this leaves us more exposed. I'm no tactical genius so I don't have the solution, but it's clear something isn't right. Perhaps by playing defensively, we invite extra pressure, and inevitably that leads to more shots?

If we look at the below graphics:

https://experimental361.com/2019/05/05/ ... 2-2018-19/

https://experimental361.com/2018/05/06/ ... 2-2017-18/

https://experimental361.com/2017/05/06/ ... -2-201617/

We consistently have a far busier defence than most other teams, no wonder we concede goals. If anything, it's a testament to our goalkeepers that we don't concede even more. That's three seasons in a row, which suggests it's our tactical set-up and not necessarily the players we have, or probably both.

One thing I have noticed is that our wingers often leave our full-backs very exposed, Mandeville, Oates, Ellison, Mingoia, whoever played out on the wing this season never did our defence any favours.
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Re: Defence

Postby Castaway » Wed May 15, 2019 12:32 am

For me this is an area that JB needs to concentrate on by bringing in an experienced defensive midfield player to play just in front of the back line and where possible breaking up attacks and ensuring that an opponent doesn't get an opportunity to run unchallenged as we have seen all too often in games.


It could be a first, but I agree with you. I like our back 5 (hopefully Mills will sign on) and the fact that the stats says we are busy suggests they're not getting a whole lot of protection.
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Re: Defence

Postby marky No.1 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:28 am

Full backs too narrow, particularly left back, there is always acres of space for the opposition wingers and many a time there will be 2 of them operating on the right wing. Centre backs get drawn out, then someone will have a pop shot from 20 yards+ which Baz, I'm afraid, is not very good at keeping out.

Having said that many called for you score 1, we will score 2 scenario and our change to having 2 proper strikers working together has been a breath of fresh air.

I really hope Tutte will have more time on the pitch next season, let's hope he can stay fit a bit longer
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Re: Defence

Postby Little Shrimp » Wed May 15, 2019 9:47 am

I think there is a general consensus, one which I agree with, that while our defence is generally decent, what lies in front of them is pretty flimsy.

I really enjoyed how we worked against Cheltenham and thought it proved incredibly effective. We pressed intelligently and effectively with great energy, which was why we were able to dominate them like we did. IMO an effective and organised press will take you a long way in League Two, where players lack somewhat in technical ability, something which is further exacerbated by the lower quality of pitches. I didn't particularly enjoy the way Lincoln played this season, but their organisation, pressing and restriction of space was spectacularly good. We could barely progress out of our own half.

Get some more dynamism in midfield, model how we want to play on that Cheltenham performance and I think we could do well. For those who enjoy the tactical side of things, here are a couple of interesting videos explaining examples of how a 4-4-2 can be used effectively in defence; Burnley doing more a low block style and Atletico Madrid playing higher up the pitch with it. Obviously, two sides in the upper leagues of the game but interesting to see how the systems are implemented:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKHwUVYH4hU&t=3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMgum-rKb5U&t=657s
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Re: Defence

Postby Posh » Wed May 15, 2019 1:24 pm

There are a few things that I think cause the weakness in defence.

- Alex Kenyon. He clearly does break up play but his distribution is poor. Andy Fleming could do this but is it the best use of a player who can also have a significant impact further up the field.

- Playing wide players. While I enjoy classic wing play few modern teams play with them anymore. Instead wing-backs are supplying the crosses and we should use Luke Conlan and Zak Mills to do this work. Zak, though, does get caught out and needs to get back in position quicker or the defensive midfielder tracks over. I honestly don't think we need players like Piero Mingoia who does play right out on the touchline and instead get a midfield three or a diamond four with the two central players tucked in.

If you're interested, this is an absolutely brilliant article on the changes in modern football that covers this https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer ... -1.3874358.

- Tough tacklers and big runners. Who are these in our midfield? Flemmo, Alex and Jordan (although he does make mistakes when defending on the edge of the box) and I think that's it. People have mentioned Andy Grimshaw. He wasn't just a 'yard dog', he was what they call in South America - volante de marca - the steering wheel. If we're going to play Liam Mandeville, Gomes-Mendez, even Kevin Ellison who rarely tackles these days, then we need a 'rock' at the back.

However, it is worth noting the article above that the number of tackles per game in the Premier League has dropped in less than 10 years from 24 to 16 per game, and pressing allows for more interceptions. Teams are now everything and bigger than the individual. If you're carrying any player who won't put in the effort required as part of a system then you can't play them.

- Playing to a system. Beggars can't be choosers but if Jim has a system (that hopefully doesn't rely on one up front) then hopefully we can find players or mould players to that system. For me Liam Mandeville isn't a winger but he cropped up there a lot. In a 4-2-3-1 he'd be playing from middle to left with a bit of freedom. Or not playing at all if he couldn't get back and break up play.
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Re: Defence

Postby Shrimpy » Wed May 15, 2019 2:24 pm

Posh wrote:- Playing wide players. While I enjoy classic wing play few modern teams play with them anymore. Instead wing-backs are supplying the crosses and we should use Luke Conlan and Zak Mills to do this work. Zak, though, does get caught out and needs to get back in position quicker or the defensive midfielder tracks over. I honestly don't think we need players like Piero Mingoia who does play right out on the touchline and instead get a midfield three or a diamond four with the two central players tucked in.

The in vogue tactic / system this past season has been the 4-1-2-1-2 / 4-diamond-2 / 4-4-2 diamond (whatever you want to call it). Luton are probably the best example of it, essentially playing with wing backs in a back 4. Whilst I can see Zak Mills doing this role I'm not too sure about Conlan, Jordan Cranston may actually be better suited to it. We would need to sign a very good player to sit at the base of the diamond for this though as you say.

A good write up on Luton's system can be found here: https://footballbh.net/2019/03/25/natha ... -analysis/
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Re: Defence

Postby Freez » Wed May 15, 2019 3:20 pm

Is agree that the pressing against Cheltenham was excellent, this was helped on the day by The Robins playing what turned out to be a suicidally high back three, which on the day we exploited at every opportunity.
If teams play with more space between the backs and midfield, as Lincoln did when they had the ball at the Globe, it is harder to close down unless we hunt in packs, as we got picked off with ease that day!
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Re: Defence

Postby tim-sanchez » Wed May 15, 2019 5:19 pm

I actually thought Fleming was superb after he came back from injury. He pressed well, broke up the attack, and we know he has the quality to keep possession afterwards. It remains to be seen whether he can keep it up, but I don't think he's wasted at all in that role if he keeps up his performances. Two deserved MOTM performances at home, and he'd have been in with a shout away from home as well.

We often have deep-lying playmakers who can dictate possession, or defensive midfielders who break up play, but rarely one that can do both (probably because they'd quickly rise through the leagues). Fleming I thought handled that role well.
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