O/t Calais

[SolentShrimp]

How many of us think the gulf between the Premiership and the rest of football has grown too wide? In fact, even the top third of the Premiership and the rest? Wouldn't football be better all around if the cake was cut a little bit fairer?

Yep. You asked the question.
Too many over here, and too many over paid foreigners, African or otherwise.
Only 30% of Premiership players are eligible to play for England. That's why we're inconsistent [sounds better than Crap].
Any idea what a contract is supposed to be?
Why is there still an annual African Cup of Nations, yep that's every 12 months, when the continent is so war torn and an evil place to live?
Only asking.

[marky No.1]

71 migrant bodies found in the back of a van.. dreadful
They need to sort this out and quickly

[shrimpnsave]

71 migrant bodies found in the back of a van.. dreadful
They need to sort this out and quickly

How can the authorities sort it out
They will not stop coming.the EU are quite happy for mass immigration to Europe
and the UK is part of the EU

[Posh]

71 migrant bodies found in the back of a van.. dreadful
They need to sort this out and quickly

How can the authorities sort it out
They will not stop coming.the EU are quite happy for mass immigration to Europe
and the UK is part of the EU

Where are all these migrants coming from?

Iraq - invaded and created a civil war
Syria - civil war spilled over from Iraq creating a mass conflict
Afghanistan - invaded and left behind an appalling mess
Libya - dropped lots of bombs on and helped create a civil war

We're great at creating an almighty mess but have no idea how to fix it.

[shrimpnsave]

71 migrant bodies found in the back of a van.. dreadful
They need to sort this out and quickly

How can the authorities sort it out
They will not stop coming.the EU are quite happy for mass immigration to Europe
and the UK is part of the EU

Where are all these migrants coming from?

Iraq - invaded and created a civil war
Syria - civil war spilled over from Iraq creating a mass conflict
Afghanistan - invaded and left behind an appalling mess
Libya - dropped lots of bombs on and helped create a civil war

We're great at creating an almighty mess but have no idea how to fix it.

Agreed but you fail to mention the Economic migrants that see a great opportunity to entry Europe at the plight of others?

[Phil Anderer]

I read this idea in a daily paper a couple of weeks ago, and it does have merit in my opinion. It does require countries to sign up to it, and some (such as Hungary and Macedonia, for example) are unlikely to, but the idea is that countries jointly appoint a single arbitrator, such as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), to consider all applications for asylum, and then assign a country for them to go to if they get asylum. This would stop people from preselecting where they want to go to, and potentially remove most economic migrants trying to use asylum as an excuse for migration. Genuine asylum seekers would still get asylum, but they couldn't choose what country they go to. I'll await the arguments against, and consider them as they arrive - I'm always willing to listen to the other side, unlike some...

[shrimpnsave]

I read this idea in a daily paper a couple of weeks ago, and it does have merit in my opinion. It does require countries to sign up to it, and some (such as Hungary and Macedonia, for example) are unlikely to, but the idea is that countries jointly appoint a single arbitrator, such as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), to consider all applications for asylum, and then assign a country for them to go to if they get asylum. This would stop people from preselecting where they want to go to, and potentially remove most economic migrants trying to use asylum as an excuse for migration. Genuine asylum seekers would still get asylum, but they couldn't choose what country they go to. I'll await the arguments against, and consider them as they arrive - I'm always willing to listen to the other side, unlike some...

Maybe but economic migrants have worked it out already they dump any Identification and have a better chance to claim asylum????

[Phil Anderer]

I read this idea in a daily paper a couple of weeks ago, and it does have merit in my opinion. It does require countries to sign up to it, and some (such as Hungary and Macedonia, for example) are unlikely to, but the idea is that countries jointly appoint a single arbitrator, such as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), to consider all applications for asylum, and then assign a country for them to go to if they get asylum. This would stop people from preselecting where they want to go to, and potentially remove most economic migrants trying to use asylum as an excuse for migration. Genuine asylum seekers would still get asylum, but they couldn't choose what country they go to. I'll await the arguments against, and consider them as they arrive - I'm always willing to listen to the other side, unlike some...

Maybe but economic migrants have worked it out already they dump any Identification and have a better chance to claim asylum????

Yes, but, if they can't guarantee where they'll end up, for example Greece, China (at the moment. although they'd hardly sign up), Russia (ditto), Serbia, Albania, South Africa, Argentina, Brazil, etc., the incentive for the economic migrant is massively reduced, since they can't guarantee getting to the country they want. The idea is, providing sufficient countries sign up, it becomes a lottery as to whether you reach a growing, western, first world economy. If you are a genuine asylum seeker, you don't care, as long as you get away from where you are in danger or being persecuted. If you're fleeing Daesh (read about it, it's less complementary, without, as far as I'm aware, being outright insulting, than Isis or Islamic State) controlled Syria/Iraq, and you're gay, they're not going to send you somewhere like Nigeria, but you might still end up in a second world economy like Brazil, which is currently having major economic issues, but is relatively safe for LGBT individuals. Genuine asylum seekers will still leave, but economic migrants will likely have second thoughts.

[shrimpnsave]

I read this idea in a daily paper a couple of weeks ago, and it does have merit in my opinion. It does require countries to sign up to it, and some (such as Hungary and Macedonia, for example) are unlikely to, but the idea is that countries jointly appoint a single arbitrator, such as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), to consider all applications for asylum, and then assign a country for them to go to if they get asylum. This would stop people from preselecting where they want to go to, and potentially remove most economic migrants trying to use asylum as an excuse for migration. Genuine asylum seekers would still get asylum, but they couldn't choose what country they go to. I'll await the arguments against, and consider them as they arrive - I'm always willing to listen to the other side, unlike some...

Maybe but economic migrants have worked it out already they dump any Identification and have a better chance to claim asylum????

Yes, but, if they can't guarantee where they'll end up, for example Greece, China (at the moment. although they'd hardly sign up), Russia (ditto), Serbia, Albania, South Africa, Argentina, Brazil, etc., the incentive for the economic migrant is massively reduced, since they can't guarantee getting to the country they want. The idea is, providing sufficient countries sign up, it becomes a lottery as to whether you reach a growing, western, first world economy. If you are a genuine asylum seeker, you don't care, as long as you get away from where you are in danger or being persecuted. If you're fleeing Daesh (read about it, it's less complementary, without, as far as I'm aware, being outright insulting, than Isis or Islamic State) controlled Syria/Iraq, and you're gay, they're not going to send you somewhere like Nigeria, but you might still end up in a second world economy like Brazil, which is currently having major economic issues, but is relatively safe for LGBT individuals. Genuine asylum seekers will still leave, but economic migrants will likely have second thoughts.

Forgive me for asking but do the countries you have mentioned have a benefit system as generous as the UK

[SolentShrimp]

Catch the traffickers...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... urope.html

Didn't she do well...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... d-pay.html

...biggest surprise for me is that she went back to Nigeria.

I got a P800 from HM Revenue & Customs last week for £169 unpaid tax in the last FY. No choice but to pay it, albeit over 12 months via a reduced tax code.

[Lloydie]

Our benefit system does annoy me, but I'm sure other European countries have just a soft a system, I saw a programme on how Sweden are getting more migrants that us, now they where a lot softer than us. I think a lot head for us because English is the only European language they can speak more than anything.

[SolentShrimp]

I think a lot head for us because English is the only European language they can speak more than anything.

No need for all this expense then...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2904814/Shock-figures-reveal-huge-sums-spent-translators-police-councils-hospitals.html

Some of the comments at the end of the article speak volumes.

[Phil Anderer]

Forgive me for asking but do the countries you have mentioned have a benefit system as generous as the UK

No, that's the whole effing point! They can't guarantee ending up in a country with even a first world economy, so the whole economic migration thing becomes a massive risk factor, for most not worth taking.

[Lloydie]

I think a lot head for us because English is the only European language they can speak more than anything.

No need for all this expense then...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2904814/Shock-figures-reveal-huge-sums-spent-translators-police-councils-hospitals.html

Some of the comments at the end of the article speak volumes.

When you quote the Daily Mail you argument is invalid #thosetherules

[Keith]

There was a report a while back that Polish was the second most spoken language in Britain. My dad (Solent Shrimp's long lost brother) was ranting about how disgraceful it was. I asked 'well what should be the second most spoken language?' He shouted ENGLISH!

"In that case, what should be the most spoken language?"
"err, English. Well, err..."
"English can't be the most spoken AND the second most spoken can it?"
*silent sulk*

Sometime hatred simply blinds people of logic. As for the migrant/refugee situation, we f***** most of the countries up and now we want to wash our hands of the problem WE created?

[shrimpnsave]

Sometime hatred simply blinds people of logic. As for the migrant/refugee situation, we f***** most of the countries up and now we want to wash our hands of the problem WE created?

Is that a "collective WE" or is that an handful of moronic MP's that did the screwing up!!!

[Keith]

Is that a "collective WE" or is that an handful of moronic MP's that did the screwing up!!!

Yes, to both. It doesn't matter how much we protested or shouted 'not in my name' it was Britain & the USA that went to war with no plan for peace except getting the oil out. And even that's not worked out too well.

The problem in Syria is that really, we need Bashar al-Assad to win because of the terrorist backed rebels who will turn Syria in to a extreme Muslim state. But we can't have that because the Russians & Iranians support Assad. So we've a kind of proxy war, where [the collective] 'we' don't actually want either side to win as it isn't in 'our' interest for either to take control of the area. And so, as usual, it's the innocent people who pay for our interference and incompetence.

[marky No.1]

O/t I suppose, but that train situation leaving Budapeste today and the scenes that followed were

...and as for the kids on the beach

[Phil Anderer]

It's sometimes very easy to give a lazy response to something like this. It's actually no easier than the Northern Ireland situation. If you try to impose your solution (as Britain and other countries have, over the years), then you will always create disaffected individuals. These individuals might be in the minority, but they create a major problem for the moderate, law-abiding majority. I'm not advocating discussion with Daesh (ISIS), but there is a need to seek peace in the host countries, which won't necessarily be achieved by trying to imposing Western ideals of democracy. There is a argument that the best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship, and perhaps some cultures suit that better. We, as a western democracy, want that to be the model for all, and I'm not excluding myself from that, but it does seem not to be working in some places. What I'm trying to say is, don't seek easy answers to difficult problems - you'll just end up reading the Daily Snail and agreeing with Solent Shrimp!

[George Dawes]

5000? we could help a lot more from Syria.

I feel partly responsible for the situation ISIS have caused, by going into Iraq illegally and causing the mass stampede of Humans Beings(not animals) however it's not just a EU problem, I feel any country, who has taken part in these recent conflicts, should be mucking in helping clear this mess up.

we should be looking at taking in numbers like 200.000+ refugees and NOT migrants, at the expense of other standard EU free movement members, coming to the UK to balance them numbers out.


I would like to point out, there is a difference with a Refugee and Migrant( look it up and define it) so its important to have strong borders to challenge and check the right people(refugees) come through to get spread about the UK to integrate and be given the chance to rebuild and for us to learn and think twice about invading and taking military action for regime change with people and arab tribes, and religions we don't really understand.

[scalehallshrimp]

why on earth are the US not taking some they are the biggest cause of this mess

[Keith]

The Lebanon seriously has a 'immigrant' problem. Relative to size, it would be the equivalent of the UK having 20,000,000 refugees. Now THAT is a problem.

Channel 4 News has reported from Lebanon for the last two nights. The Lebanese government is becoming overwhelmed and has implemented restrictions on work for refugees. As a result many refugees are planning to move on from Lebanon. Yesterday Alex Thomson said 'if Lebanon fails, the current refugee problem in Europe will be like a tea party'. Instead of planning ahead, we just respond... usually too late.

[shrimpnsave]

One guy has just angrily been reported on sky news that he is angry that Hungary has only sent one bus for him/is he a refugee or an economic migrant?

[Aspers]

What is happening with all this is an absolute tragedy.
Even the most vehement opponents of asylum seekers are I'm sure saddened by the images we've seen on TV.
Everyone has an opinion on something like this. I feel this topic on here has been argued well, without too much spite and anger.
Think I'll put this thread to bed now.