Jase (Stanley Ultras) O/T

[1990]

The thing is the SU seem to attract trouble. This can be at away matches as well which ends the theory of your stewards being fully to blame.

Do they? This is the first I've heard of this. I'm not aware of them causing any trouble at Christie Park although I do remember them being in the Morecambe end, supporting Morecambe in a play off match. Where where they causing trouble?

. Stanley and Shrimps in secret Love affair shocker.


I'm sorry to say but Jase's fate will be like many others, a three year banning order. Police and steward are sapping the life out of football and whilst most clubs and supporters (morecambe especially) seem happy to let this happen there are some who fight against, you jase being one of them. Nothing you can do but except your ban and get on with it, it's hard but that's life. The best thing you can do and what you will do I'm sure in to continue to help and support the SU in the great work they have done, keep the flag flying high otherwise wise your support could end up being like.......... Morecambe's.

[mickey]

well jase gotta say you will probably get banned ,character statements count for nothing well not in my case anyway the district judge just dismissed them had a quick glance and that was it , they dont care about you previous behaviour ,all they care about is that you were drunk at football (which itself is an offence if im right) resisted arrest and as they say assaulted a police officer, which was pretty much what i got done for in sheffield except the assault

needless to say you will become a statistic,the worse thing i found was having to take my passport to police station every time england played and having to get permission to go on holiday from the fboa,real pain that was,

you just have to take it on the chin mate it will only be for 2 years if you appeal and keep outta trouble,



just gotta add for keith ......i dont class myself as a hooligan but i recieved a banning order,which i might add was deserved for being a complete dickhead but hey things happen,it doesnt mean im gonna be in green street 3 tho does it

[ftm]

alot of interesting point raised in this thread.

my opinion (for what its worth) that football is predominantly a working class game. history has shown that it is male orintated from blokes "letting off" steam at the weekend. swearing, whether you like it or not has always been on the terraces. who decides what is exceptable or not?

when i was a young one, the fellas screamed Abuse and unrepeatable words. my dad did nothing but explained that it was wrong. i loved the atmosphere, BUT guess what, i swear now! NOT infront of my mother or young son, and believe it or not, infront of my bosses or infact i can hold it together in any convesation.

i find myself now in the same boat as my father when i take my son.
i tend to find at football that the people who complain the most about swearing are the ones who have been brain washed by the government,FA, clubs themselves.
morecambe is a big enough stadium now to have designated areas for families who feel that strong.
personally, its all about the game, and the saturday letting off steam.

the issue around policing etc, totally aggree. way over the top. the stewards at my club are nothing but power crazed idiots (i am not suggesting this applies to Morecambe as i personally know alot of them), but the away fans (at my club), are treated awful. just reading our forum and the amount of people getting banning orders for standing up after celebrating a goal is unreal. the police are heavy handed talking to them if you have a problem treat you like the crap football fans have been painted over the last 20 years.
this is interesting and sums up really the problems with policing of the game.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/Batman-and-R ... anager.php

other threads worth reading but may contain bad language are,

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread ... t=stewards

or one of the biggest injustices of our time,

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread ... al+station

now this jase lad.

reading only from what has been put on here, i have no sympathy with him at all. i can understand that people on here might want to support him from what he has done in the past, but being drunk, throwing stuff, assault? this is the behaviour that has caused over zealous attitudes from policing of football. especially when they were playing them horrible lot who would and always have brought trouble where ever they go.

i remember a few years ago a long standing morecmabe lad getting the same sort of treatment for his unacceptable actions. if you make mistakes you get the punishments.
maybe if he is banned he will be able to reflect on his actions and come back a stronger character who will understand that his behaviour leads to consequences for other law abiding fans.

just my oopinion not posted to offend or upset anyone!

[Opinionated]

The thing is the SU seem to attract trouble. This can be at away matches as well which ends the theory of your stewards being fully to blame.

Do they? This is the first I've heard of this. I'm not aware of them causing any trouble at Christie Park although I do remember them being in the Morecambe end, supporting Morecambe in a play off match. Where where they causing trouble?

The Accrington fans got restless at times and engaged in their own bit of crowd trouble. They lost a couple of supporters to the Gloucestershire Constabulary and St. John’s Ambulance.

- http://www.cheltenhamtownareathome.com/ ... anley.html

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sp ... ley_match/

Also heard there was trouble at Doncaster

[Posh]

now this jase lad.

reading only from what has been put on here, i have no sympathy with him at all. i can understand that people on here might want to support him from what he has done in the past, but being drunk, throwing stuff, assault?

Innocent until proven guilty.

You've no more idea about what happened that night than anyone else on this board. He might have had two pints in The Crown rather than be drunk. I had two friends told to go and drink coffee and get fresh air by a little Goebbels at Swindon in the FA Cup. Both had one pint before the game. Their crimes, one joked about being body searched and the other dropped out of the queue to get a scarf and then joined another queue.

According to the press coverage, the object thrown on the pitch was a toilet roll, like about 50 others earlier in the game. He wasn't charged with throwing it on the pitch.

In my experience police and stewards differ in their reactions depending on the situation they are in. Police ferried in from another constabulary, who then spend three hours on a minibus and are told what a dangerous lot these footballers are tend to be somewhat more 'stressed' than the local bobby. For some policemen and members of the judiciary football supporters, and in the 80s trade unionists, are different to other members of the public and can be treated as a sub-class, despite the huge drop in football related criminality. Yet you go a trendy middle-class music festival like Lattitude and this year there was one case of rape, one of attempted rape and one of attempted murder. Yet policing is non-existent and everyone who attends such a festival isn't treated as a criminal from the moment they walk into the ground or put on a football shirt. Where the police go expecting trouble you usually get trouble, and sadly from Northern Ireland, to the Miners Strike, to a couple of matches I've been too its been the case and its horrible to watch.

[slackAlice]

Posh

In my experience police and stewards differ in their reactions depending on the situation they are in. Police ferried in from another constabulary, who then spend three hours on a minibus and are told what a dangerous lot these footballers are tend to be somewhat more 'stressed' than the local bobby. For some policemen and members of the judiciary football supporters, and in the 80s trade unionists, are different to other members of the public and can be treated as a sub-class, despite the huge drop in football related criminality.

I'd agree with all that and the fact that the lads innocent until proven otherwise. Its unclear whats gone on but the original report seem to suggest Jase had gone to the aid of a mate who was being 'attended' to by the constabulary. He'll probably get 'what for' when it goes before the court , he might have had 1 pint more than normal ? who knows ?

The policing and stewarding at football matches still leaves an awful lot to be desired and I dare say that the Accy V N'castle had the police on a 'heightened' zero tolerance state of mind. Having attended football matches for 4 decades it ceases to shock just what the 'Police' and 'Stewards' do and say to members of the public ; it was explained to me once by a sergeant that in the 70's & 80's they used to hand pick or volunteer all the police 'meatheads' for football duty especially in the big city's - Leeds , Liverpool ,Manchester etc. You might argue they needed them !!
But how many other supporters have been assaulted by the Police ? I've been physically assaulted and verbally abused by the police at least 4 times for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time and seen others suffer the same fate - one particularly nasty incident at Leeds with one of those long wooden canes -which still sends a shudder down my spine -a mate of a mate and a misunderstanding about where he was in the queue and crack !. And I don't buy the 'odd bad apple' argument I still don't trust them particularly at football matches and never will I've seen what there capable of.

So I hope Jase makes a spirited defence when it goes before the court , because what they [Stanley Ultras] have going on there is what makes football a great day out - emotion , noise , colour ,passion - otherwise everybody might as well pack up and sit still for 90 minutes , interuted only for the prawn sandwiches, the occasional polite round of applause and boo / hiss when things don't go quite right.

[P/T Indie]

But how many other supporters have been assaulted by the Police ? I've been physically assaulted and verbally abused by the police at least 4 times for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time and seen others suffer the same fate - one particularly nasty incident at Leeds with one of those long wooden canes -which still sends a shudder down my spine -a mate of a mate and a misunderstanding about where he was in the queue and crack !. And I don't buy the 'odd bad apple' argument I still don't trust them particularly at football matches and never will I've seen what there capable of.


Very trye Alice I know someone who was walking down the street at a game the police were meant to be controlling the crowd so hearded everyone up and started cracking people with batans for no reason.

What made me laugh was all the pushing and shoving at the G20 protest and the investigations that followed after, that happens every week at football grounds across the country and noone says anything.

[Keith]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sp ... ley_match/

Also heard there was trouble at Doncaster

Is it actually illegal to have a banner? I doubt if Acci took more than a couple of hundred to Cheltenham so why did the police need to stop them unfurling the banner? I don't know, perhaps there was a good reason but on the face of it, a quick risk assessment would probably have suggested letting them get on with it rather than be confrontational. The two reports refer to the same game.

As I said before, it's a tough job but there are times when a non-confrontational approach has a far better outcome than a confrontational one.

[Posh]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sp ... ley_match/

Also heard there was trouble at Doncaster

Is it actually illegal to have a banner? I doubt if Acci took more than a couple of hundred to Cheltenham so why did the police need to stop them unfurling the banner? I don't know, perhaps there was a good reason but on the face of it, a quick risk assessment would probably have suggested letting them get on with it rather than be confrontational. The two reports refer to the same game.

As I said before, it's a tough job but there are times when a non-confrontational approach has a far better outcome than a confrontational one.

At MK Dons we had to prove that our RIP Gary Dullaghan banner was fire retardent. When we couldn't we had to display it outside the ground to stewards. Then display it on CCTV to police in the control box and then it went off to get inspected. Finally it came back and we were good to take it in. All the way through the stewards were phenomenally good. It just all seemed ridiculous for a banner about 6 ft by 8 ft. Again at music festivals they take huge banners, 30 foot long poles and flammable long pieces yet zero checks.

[Mike]

To balance the argument I once found myself in Sheffield outside Bramall Lane when Man U were in town for IIRC a FA Cup Quarter final, think it was 93.

5 of us were outside the ground around kick off time when a local copper asks what we were up, having explained that we were squaddies just back from blah and on our way to blah and showed him ID, he said give me 5 minutes and came back with a ticket for each of us, rescued from a tout. Different parts of the ground mind, but still a very nice gesture.

But then again, move forward 5 - 10 years later and we have the chip tossing incident at Boston United which ended with the armed response in the ground and a couple of days out at court, where fortunately the local judges saw sense and dismissed the case the police put in front of them.

I think Posh sum's it up perfectly with this;

Where the police go expecting trouble you usually get trouble

Good Luck to the lad from Accy

[yozzer]

I am always wary of people who are prejudiced. Things aren't always black and white. Police and stewards right. Football supporters wrong. Doh!
As Mike has stated there is a balance to be struck. A police force is made up of individuals like all of us who within their remit can still get it wrong. I was so pleased that the case at Boston was thrown out of court where glaring incompetence and massive over-reaction from both stewards and police was recognised as being so. I don't know the details regarding Jase's case but I do know from personal experience that to presume guilt in an opiniated way without knowing the full facts is ignorant and reprehensible.

[ftm]

Posh wrote:
Where the police go expecting trouble you usually get trouble

end of thread in one sentence.

[yozzer]

Posh wrote:
Where the police go expecting trouble you usually get trouble

end of thread in one sentence.

Explain. That can be read two ways. The police can either cause the trouble by their presence, treat people like animals they behave like animals; or law breakers are targetted by the police for a good reason and deserve what they get. Don't be trite. Make your point.

[Mike W.]

Just to pass on a couple of comments.

Jason is actually getting the support of a good lawyer arranged for him by the Football Supporters Federation. It is also considered, I am told, that a banning order is, by no means certain. And that is without commenting on the question of his guilt or innocense. At least though he will get proper due process of law, which not everybody in these situations does get.

When you find your self in a bad situation like this it is important that you do take steps to get the right kind of advice from someone knowledgeable in this area of the law. Too often someone gets a bad result from this kind of situation because they fail to get the right kind of support, which is their entitlement. Even if you get a lawyer, that may not help, if you just get a well meaning but local guy, more aware of the problems of house conveyancing in Heysham ! Do try to get somebody that "knows".

You can help yourself, if you do get into a mess of this kind, by contacting the FSF, and they will do all they can to help.

See http://www.fsf.org.uk/

The FSF will try to assist even non-members, but as membership of the FSF is free (YES FREE - see the website) becoming a member is something that may be good for you without cost.

IF any Shrimps fans do find themselves in the clarts, like this, they could do considerably worse than by contacting the FSF.

Mike Williamson
Secretary FSF

[marky No.1]

Jase gets 3 year ban

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sp ... ing_order/

[Bare Ben]

Absolute disgrace this, really hope it's overturned.

[mrpotatohead]

VERY HARSH, Sums up our magistrates to a tee, our country is policed by tossers, and judged by middle class twits.

[Aspers]

Looks a bit like Boris from London!.

[Keith]

From a link on the same page:

...Victim Stuart Pennell, 25, was struck full in the face with a brick, hit the ground twice, cracked his head on the pavement and ended up unconscious after he was targeted by a teenage gang. He suffered multiple fractures to his facial bones, including his jaw on both sides, nose and eye socket. The victim will be permanently scarred because of surgery. He also suffered from numbness, problems with his teeth and gums, claustrophobia and panic attacks.

Burnley Crown Court heard how the first attacker to throw the brick was a convicted robber and was said to pose a high risk of harm to the public — yet he was only 15.

A judge was unable to detain the teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, because of his age.

He was given an 18-month community rehabilitation order, a 60 day intensive supervision and surveillance programme and a six-month 7pm to 7am curfew.

His accomplice Shaun Devlin, 19, of Arran Street, admitted inflicting grievous bodily harm. He was sent to a Young Offenders’ Institution for nine months.

Shaun Wilkinson, 19, of Venice Avenue, both Burnley, pleaded guilty to affray and was sent to custody for six months.

Jonathan Dickinson, prosecuting, said Mr Pennell was with friends at a garage on Rossendale Road, Burnley. The 15-year-old got annoyed because the cashier refused to sell him cigarettes. Mr Pennell told him to go away and the teenager told him: “I will go and get the boys.” He walked off and returned with his co-defendants. Mr Dickinson said Devlin was holding a metre-long piece of wood and he and Wilkinson approached the victim, who ran off.

The defendants caught up with him, Devlin swung the wood and the 15-year-old threw a brick at the victim from about five metres away.

The 15-year-old had a record going back to when he was 12 and his co-defendants also had previous convictions.

Full story without my highlights...
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/ne ... fe/?ref=mr

So the 15 year old who almost kills someone gets a punishment that is barely anything. In fact, Jase would probably swap punishments if it meant he could carry on watching Accrington. Farcical isn't it.

[marky No.1]

“The repression of supporter culture in this country
is almost total – we actually had a bag of confetti
taken from us the other week because ‘we might
throw it’!” SLCFC-ULTRA (UK Ultras Forum).

“The whole movement was inspired by British fans
from back in the day – the Kop, the scarves etc. We are
reclaiming that spirit of old – the same spirit that the
rest of the world have adopted and grown to love, but
we seem to have discarded and mourned ever since.”
i bianconeri (UK Ultras Forum)

“A lot of clubs are starting off ultras groups now in
this country, and a lot of fans have the ‘I’ll join in
when it really gets off the ground’ mentality, not
understanding that for it to get off the ground, it
needs YOU!” Mike Booth, Ultras Carvetii

“Stadia are generally over policed, over priced
and soulless. I feel sorry for the average young fan
growing up in this climate.” The Holmesdale Fanatics

http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/Fi ... ultras.pdf

Interesting the number of Clubs that consider themselves Ultras:

Phoenix Supras Aldershot Town
Ultras Barrovia Barrow
Forza Eastend Bristol City
Burton Boys Burton Albion
Ultras Carvetii Carlisle United
Th e Green Brigade Celtic
Blue White Army Colchester United
Crawley Devils Crawley Town
Holmesdale Fanatics Crystal Palace
Celt Clan Ultras Farsley Celtic
Cowshed Loyal Huddersfi eld Town
Fosse Boys Leicester City
Ultra Whites Leeds United
Red Faction Middlesbrough
Toon Ultras Newcastle United
Giallo Escercito Oxford United
Th e PLC & U’s Ultras Peterborough United
Swindon Ultras Swindon Town
Sector N3 Telford United
Jorvik Reds York City

[Posh]

I think its ridiculous but I've said so before. Its one of the few 'crimes' where circumstances aren't taken into account and the punishment given equally. Hope he fights and wins.

Finally I hope he takes action against the Lancashire Telegraph for putting a photograph of Father Ted where his photo should have been. Outrageous.